Easy 6 or 7

[jillybean]

Justin, Ive obviously over reacted to your reply. Im sensitive and this is a scary place, there are no underlying issues. Sorry.

[Jlall]

Justin, Ive obviously over reacted to your reply. Im sensitive and this is a scary place, there are no underlying issues. Sorry.

No problem, thanks for apology.

[Stephen Tu]

As far as I can tell, it is very normal among the leading players in our part of the world. FWIW I am a strong believer - there is even a (hardly necessary) statement to this effect in my system notes.

 

I assume you mean this in a context where only one suit has been shown, not necessarily other sequences? E.g. in your 2/1 articles after 1h-2d-2h-3h, you advocated up-the-line cue bidding with 3s showing singleton/void/ace/king, and anything else denying spade control.

[fred]

As far as I can tell, it is very normal among the leading players in our part of the world. FWIW I am a strong believer - there is even a (hardly necessary) statement to this effect in my system notes.

 

I assume you mean this in a context where only one suit has been shown, not necessarily other sequences? E.g. in your 2/1 articles after 1h-2d-2h-3h, you advocated up-the-line cue bidding with 3s showing singleton/void/ace/king, and anything else denying spade control.

Correct.

 

But the articles you refer to are very old. I no longer play much of what is written in them in my regular partnerships.

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[kenrexford]

I would have assumed that 3♠ (the cheapest call) showed a stiff somewhere and that 3NT (spades), 4♣, and 4♦ would be "Help Suit Slam Tries."

 

Hence, 3♠ would have enabled Responder to bid 3NT to ask for the shortness, to cue a trick source, or to sign off with no slam interest opposite shortness.

 

I pretty much need partner to have the club Ace and something interesting in spades (Q or doubleton), or club Ace and length.

 

How about this hand where partner has neither club length nor anything interesting in spades:

 

xxx

xxxx

xxxx

Ax

 

Needless to say, this is hardly a limit raise.

 

Needless to say, it is hardly unlikely that partner's side length is in diamonds.

 

So, why not now indicate the stiff?  If I ask with 4NT, I might find out about the club Ace, but not the rest of the story.  If I bid 5♦ to show my stiff, can a partner who initially signed off continue to reject the slam move with the club Ace and either club length or the spade Queen?

 

Not sure if you are being serious, Ken, but in my strong opinion it is an extremely bad idea to tell partner (not to mention telling the opponents) that you have a singleton diamond and then respect partner's signoff in 4H or 5H. Catering to staying out of 6H when partner has an Ace is just not practical bridge (IMO).

 

There are too many possible "rest of stories" that end with you being either laydown for 6H or wanting to be in 6H in which partner will not even think about cooperating. I suspect you don't need me to construct any example hands to prove this point, but in case I am wrong, here is one for you:

 

xxx

Qxxx

KQx

Axx

 

It sounds to me like you have fallen in love with a relatively obscure convention (which may well be a useful convention) to the extent that you did not bother to look at your actual hand (assuming you were being serious).

 

But serious or not, I hardly think that the B-I Forum is an appropriate place to present a convention like this.

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

I did miss that this was Beginner-Intermediate, again. I never look at what forum group it is in, because I just check "view new posts" and look at the topics.

 

But, at least you are starting to sniff when I am in fact joking. I hardly would have expected Justin's 4NT to be a useful-space diamond-stiff indicator and 3♠ undiscussed to be assumed as a relay-splinter call. But, finding a way to reinterpret Justin's sequence this obscurely was too fun for me to pass up.

 

:)

[ONEferBRID]

I would have assumed that 3♠ (the cheapest call) showed a stiff somewhere and that 3NT (spades), 4♣, and 4♦ would be "Help Suit Slam Tries."

 

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

 

  In other words, 4NT shows a stiff diamond, which I have!  Brilliant!  That allows partner to make other moves on a close call.

 

Perfect auction!

I find it far from a "perfect auction" to finally have Opener w/"extras" show Diam shortness with a 4NT! bid.

 

If Swedish2NT were used to show a limit raise+ (or better) w/4cd support,

the Diam shortness w/extras would be shown with a 3S! bid ! !

 

Now, look at all the room for "other moves" -- "close call " or otherwise .

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Actually, in the future, anything ( eg. Bergen Raises) has to be better than the 3M-jump to show a 4 cd limit raise.

[vuroth]

This is confusing.  Now I have no idea when to show controls and when not to.

if you have a limit raise and partner qbids then if you can cooperate below the game level. The meta agreement should be to cooperate below game in auctions like this.

I confess that I thought this was the standard treatment - that as a courtesy you showed control bids below game if you could.

 

In this case, 4NT gets you the info as well, but what if you held:

 

 

[hv=s=sakxhakxxxxdckqjx]133|100|[/hv]

 

or

 

[hv=s=sakxhakxxxxdckqjx]133|100|[/hv]

 

 

Now 4NT isn't as useful to me, and I'd sure like for partner to show which minor suit ace they have, if any, even if they don't think they have a useful hand for slam.

 

I'll agree with Fred that I don't recall all of this being laid out in 5 weeks to winning bridge. :) I find control-showing bids, when to use them and when not to, to be inherently confusing at the B/I level.

 

Maybe my biggest problem as a B/I is that, once I "learn" a new toy like control showing, I next need to learn when to use it and when NOT to. On this hand, it's a good lesson that a simple 4NT gets the job done.

 

V

[Codo]

I am quite sure that here in Germany for beg(int. players 3 Spade was a cuebid and that 4 Heart had denied any control in a minor.

 

This may not be the best way to evaluate slam, but I am quite sure that this is the way it is taught.

 

The "no shortness" cuebid is just made when you make a cuebid in partners suit, so 1 ♣ 1 ♥ 3 ♥ 4 ♣ shows Ace or king.

 

 

So maybe in Kathryns place there have been the same teacher.....

[kenrexford]

I would have assumed that 3♠ (the cheapest call) showed a stiff somewhere and that 3NT (spades), 4♣, and 4♦ would be "Help Suit Slam Tries."

 

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

 

  In other words, 4NT shows a stiff diamond, which I have!  Brilliant!  That allows partner to make other moves on a close call.

 

Perfect auction!

I find it far from a "perfect auction" to finally have Opener w/"extras" show Diam shortness with a 4NT! bid.

 

If Swedish2NT were used to show a limit raise+ (or better) w/4cd support,

the Diam shortness w/extras would be shown with a 3S! bid ! !

 

Now, look at all the room for "other moves" -- "close call " or otherwise .

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Actually, in the future, anything ( eg. Bergen Raises) has to be better than the 3M-jump to show a 4 cd limit raise.

I was stuck with the limit raise bid and the 3♠ continuation. LOL