Cascade Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 [hv=d=s&v=n&s=sq53h8764da9854cq]133|100|Scoring: MPPASS (PASS) 1NT (DBL)?[/hv] Whatever your escape methods are you running? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Yes. Too much risk that they'll cash a lot of clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OleBerg Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Run to diamonds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 2♦, diamonds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 assuming a 15-17 NT I am not running. With a weak NT I will bid or get partner to bid 2♦ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 fleeeeeeee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickRW Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Whatever your escape methods are you running? Yes - this hand isn't good quite good enough to want to sit (even if I could - which I usually can't with most partners - we run or play ** - no half way house. Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 assuming a 15-17 NT I am not running. With a weak NT I will bid or get partner to bid 2♦ Ditto. I am not worried about clubs. There are only 13 of them in the deck and we have at least 3, probably more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesleyC Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Given that Wayne teaches in the 'Acol Player's Club' I'm pretty sure partner has a 12-14 NT. At MPs, Pass. 1NTx might make, otherwise I might get to balanced with a t/o double over 2C which could be penalty passed or get us to a higher scoring part score. At IMPs, i'll go safe with 2D. <edit: didn't see that the setting was MPs> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Another hint is that is says "Weak NT" in the title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilboyman Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 First I ask the opponents what double means in their methods. If I am informed that the double is for penalty then 2♦. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel_k Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 I'd pass. I'm a bit nervous about clubs but I'm also worried about playing the wrong partscore since it could easily be our hand. 2♣ by LHO, pass, pass, double for takeout would be nice and is quite possible. If I could pull and show diamonds and hearts that might be an option though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
effervesce Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 I'm running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossoneri Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 Pull to 2♦ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 There's another way to look at this problem. If we had Q53 A9854 8764 Q and it went pass pass 1NT(12-14) passthe whole world would transfer, because 2♥ is more likely to make than 1NT. With the originally-posted hand, RHO's double has given us the chance to sign off in 2♦ . There is nothing about the auction to make us change our opinion that playing in the five-card suit is more likely to lead to a plus score than playing in 1NT. The only reason I can see for sitting 1NTx is that you think +90 in 2♦ won't score well, so you feel obliged to try for +180 in 1NTx. However, at tables where they play a strong notrump, it will probably have gone pass pass 1x 1NT pass pass passIf that goes one down, it's only worth +50, so +90 is likely to score well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfay Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 Wow I'd never sit. Anyone who does has never played a weak NT before. Usually in my methods I can show a 2 places to play or just 1. It's not totally clear to me what would be best here, but anything is better than sitting. ATT I'd show only diamonds, but I'm leaving open a sliver of room for someone to tell me that a 2-suited bid is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 If I have a way for partner to choose between diamonds and hearts, why wouldn't we do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bid_em_up Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 If I have a way for partner to choose between diamonds and hearts, why wouldn't we do that? Oh, I dunno. Maybe it's because when partner is 3♥-2♦, they will always choose 2H and we are probably better off playing in 2♦. Likewise when he is 3-3 in the reds, he will choose 2H and we should still (probably) be in 2D. It seems to me that offering a choice of red suits only gains when partner has 4 hearts and fewer than 3 diamonds. This target is too small for me, especially after 1N has already been doubled for penalties. I want to escape to the fit that is least likely to be doubled, and that is going to be diamonds the majority of the time. This doesn't even factor in that by concealing the heart suit the opponents may balance in 2H. ;) No? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 If I have a way for partner to choose between diamonds and hearts, why wouldn't we do that? only if I can show that I am 4-5 specifically, I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel_k Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 There's another way to look at this problem. If we had Q53 A9854 8764 Q and it went pass pass 1NT(12-14) passthe whole world would transfer, because 2♥ is more likely to make than 1NT. The whole world would transfer because 1NT doesn't score 180 on that auction. To the people who are worried about 2-3 in the red suits, that is just one holding. Showing the red suits without specifying length will gain on many others. It's a game of percentages. Finally, RHO has to guess too. He could have good clubs but will often just have a collection of high cards. Given we have at least half the HCP plus the advantage of declaring we are a favourite to make. Plus there is no guarantee of avoiding -200 if we pull. Plus if we pass and they pull to 2♣ we are now much better placed than if we tried to show suits without their help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfay Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 Given we have at least half the HCP plus the advantage of declaring we are a favourite to make. lol then why don't you redouble!!!! (please read the whole post for several examples) p.s. funny that both these threads were started by Wayne. Wayne, what's the deal?! :wacko: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanM Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 One of the reasons we use RDBL as part of our escape mechanism when 1NT is penalty DBLd is having been bitten once by redoubling on a strong but unbalanced hand. After that, we came up with a system for handling hands like that after 1NT-DBL. Chip & Lew still play it, but I have given it up as too much of a memory strain :P. It involves transfers from 2NT through 3♦, with the transfer bids showing either a weak hand with the next suit or a good hand without it. So, for instance, 1NT-DBL-2NT is either a weak hand with clubs or a strong hand with diamonds + a Major (shown by 3♦ after opener's 3♣), or a strong hand with both Majors (after 3♣ by opener, 3♥ is less strong than 3♠), or a strong 4441 or (544)0 (shown by 3NT after opener's 3♣). The other two transfers are similar. As for the actual hand, I asked Chip what he thought, and he said he would bid 2♦ over the DBL, showing diamonds and a higher suit. He said that he did that not because he was convinced that 1NT would go down, but that because if he didn't bid now and the opponents ran, he would have no way of showing a 2-suited hand, and if he did compete, partner would expect more values (our Pass of 1NT-DBLD is to play, sometimes because we think we'll make it, sometimes because we have no place to go). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted August 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Given we have at least half the HCP plus the advantage of declaring we are a favourite to make. lol then why don't you redouble!!!! (please read the whole post for several examples) p.s. funny that both these threads were started by Wayne. Wayne, what's the deal?! :P I am not 100% sure what you are asking. Do you want to know the whole deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Definitely NOT bidding 2D. We might even have a 5-4 Heart fit. I am passing, which will force a xx. Now I bid 2D to show D+H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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