vuroth Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 ♠J743♥A9873♦QT♣A9 All red, you deal. Open or pass? (MPs if it matters) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Pass, especially if we play forcing 1NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick_s Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Pass. I don't have a good rebid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 yes open unless you are a 2/1er Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 No way, no how Way too weakUgly rebid problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 As much as I'd love to open this 11 count, inspite of QT in ♦, I have to pass playing 2/1. What do I rebid over a forcing NT? When I open light I don't want rebid issues. Pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 11 HCP + 9 major cards = RUle of 20 ---- check Two quicks -- enough for me ---- check 8 losers, but that undervalues the Q10 doubleton -- enough for me ---- check 11 HCP -- expected from me ---- check Body? Lots of 10's and 9's ---- check Rebid? This seems to be the hangup. I'm fine after any response except a forcing 1NT. However, I am also fine then, because I play that 2♣ could easily be a doubleton (could be stiff, actually). So, I have no rebid problems. Yes, I'd open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 And playing the dreaded Flannery? Too worried about center opponent not being able to take a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 don't open on this crap. good point, with flannery i'd open Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vuroth Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Thanks guys. I passed, and when partner opened we had an easy NMF auction to 3NT. My thought was that I should pass this, but bid if ♠s were swapped with either minor. Sounds right? V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlall Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 I would always pass this, this hand is terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 I would always pass this, this hand is terrible. Yes, but you declare well enough to handle it, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Making the hand 5♥4m would make it less desirable for me to open it. Of course in theory the rebid problems create some difficulties and a few bad boards but the plain truth is that the more cards you have in the majors, the better your hand is (all things being equal) and I don't think other criteria can counterbalance this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel_k Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Pass, but I know I'm more conservative on these than many people. With this shape and honour pattern I'd also pass if the four card suit was a minor. The overall offense to defense ratio of this hand is low enough that I'm not too worried about being shut out if I pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Poor hand with a rebid problem. Pass as has been said before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantumcat Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Why so particular passing when playing 2/1? You could pass a forcing NT: if they have a balanced invite, you wouldn't accept it or even be very happy at the 2-level, they don't have 4 spades, and you don't really want to play at the 3 level if they have a weak hand with a minor. A shame if you have a fit, but you might make 7 tricks in both 1NT and 2H so you'd be winning then (don't they say the first side to reach 1NT in MP's will probably win the board?). Plus, if you have a fit, you get to bid to 2H when they had a minor fit, when you might not have had a chance to overcall if you passed and have them be playing in 1nt or 2-minor. As long as your p respects your repeated rejections when he has a good hand and wants to bid a lot you'll be ok. Here's what I think about opening:1. open all 12's NV (and mildly interesting 11's V)2. open all mildly interesting 11's NV and 12's V (any nice 5 card, or 5-4 or bal with 6 card)3. open all interesting 10's NV and 11's V (non bal 6 card, 5-4 with nice suits, 5-5, bal 7 card)4. open all very interesting 9's NV (nice 7 card suit, any 6-5, etc unless a 4M opening)5. open 8's if they are just incredibly amazing and not a 4M opening does anybody agree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Why so particular passing when playing 2/1? You could pass a forcing NT does anybody agree? Agree? No. The definition of a forcing NT is precisely that - it is forcing. Be aware that some people play a 1NT response as up to 15HCP. Secondly the reason to pass if you are playing 2/1 is that a 2/1 response is foring to game. Responder with a very good 12+ will put you into game. If you consistently bid game on these hands and go down, you will lose buckets of Imps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 For whatever reason, if you pass 1NT, or any other bid you have agreed to play as forcing, you erode partnership trust. It will come back to bite you in the future. Thinking of all the consequences in advance --including the OP's nice passed-hand NMF auction-- people pass this pile of dung in first or second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickRW Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 FWIW (not being a 2/1er), I play a system where I can open a little light - and I probably would open with this - just - but there would be days when I might not bother - this hand is right on the cusp of open or not for me - so I guess most 2/1ers wouldn't and I can see why. Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Yeah, didn't think about that. Pass of the "forcing" 1NT is a good option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
655321 Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Afraid I would open, though I agree it is not a good hand. Responder with a very good 12+ will put you into game. If you consistently bid game on these hands and go down, you will lose buckets of Imps. Well perhaps I am splitting hairs rather than disagreeing here, because of course if you bid games that are below the IMP odds you can expect to lose IMPs. But to say that you will lose 'buckets' of IMPS by bidding too many games seems ridiculous to me. If you are looking for ways to lose IMPS in a hurry, bidding bad games would be very low on the list. And by the way, playing a normal 2/1 system it is not true that 1NT can include 15 HCP hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Yeah, didn't think about that. Pass of the "forcing" 1NT is a good option. So next time pd will have her balanced 15 count. Great pass, Ken! You just lost that partner. for good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONEferBRID Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Open ( I'm with Ken on this one ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Yeah, didn't think about that. Pass of the "forcing" 1NT is a good option. So next time pd will have her balanced 15 count. Great pass, Ken! You just lost that partner. for good. I don't bid 1NT forcing with a balanced 15-count. I might bid 2♣, but not 1NT. I don't buy this idea of stacking on top of forcing 1NT bids. Why? You cannot then pass garbage like this (or worse). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Yeah, didn't think about that. Pass of the "forcing" 1NT is a good option. So next time pd will have her balanced 15 count. Great pass, Ken! You just lost that partner. for good. I don't bid 1NT forcing with a balanced 15-count. I might bid 2♣, but not 1NT. I don't buy this idea of stacking on top of forcing 1NT bids. Why? You cannot then pass garbage like this (or worse). It would be much easier if you just stated that you play a semi forcing NT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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