helene_t Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 1NT-(p)-2♦-(2♠)pass-(p)-3♣ 2♦ is transfer to hearts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 GF IMO. Ignoring the overcall if its possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 Can 2NT instead of 3C be a variation of lebensohl or good/bad here? Double is also available, so I would think 3m is GF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double ! Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 Can 2NT instead of 3C be a variation of lebensohl or good/bad here? Double is also available, so I would think 3m is GF. If 2NT is LEB, then how do you make a game try on a 5332 or similar ilk hand with and without a spade stopper? One way is to play Neg X's here. If not then you have let let the opp's interference disrupt your basic bidding structure when unnecessary. Eons ago i played 3m as GI, but no one else did. DHL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 i don't understand the question...you already transferred. With a 5332 invite you would double now, and it would not be a negative double. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 GF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 You need a partnership agreement. I don't know what is standard. We play double shows any strong hand not worth a jump to game and new suits are non-forcing. Lebensohl or something is possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_h Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Have never heard of a lebensohl variation in this context. Like Fluffy said, just keep it simple and play system on. 2NT invite, X takeout, 3x nat GF. If I were to play with a pick-up partner that's what I would also assume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ochinko Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 3♣ is natural and forcing to 3♥/3NT/4♣. Responder could still force further after opener shows a preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 3♣ is natural and forcing to 3♥/3NT/4♣. Responder could still force further after opener shows a preference.then responder "could" pass 3H or 4C? With 3NT one of the choices, I don't understand that. If you mean 3H, 3NT, or 4C are the only bids Opener can make, I still don't agree. 3D and 3S must have some meaning, and if simple suit preferences "could" be passed, Opener would have to jump prefer with some hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ochinko Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 3♣ is natural and forcing to 3♥/3NT/4♣. Responder could still force further after opener shows a preference.then responder "could" pass 3H or 4C? With 3NT one of the choices, I don't understand that. If you mean 3H, 3NT, or 4C are the only bids Opener can make, I still don't agree. 3D and 3S must have some meaning, and if simple suit preferences "could" be passed, Opener would have to jump prefer with some hands. Sure you can assign some meaning to ♦ and ♠, and they are valid rebids but not final destinations. That makes it even more unlikely that partner will move further if you now rebid 3♥. This is what I meant when I said 3♣ was not GF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Have never heard of a lebensohl variation in this context. Like Fluffy said, just keep it simple and play system on. 2NT invite, X takeout, 3x nat GF. If I were to play with a pick-up partner that's what I would also assume. This doesn't really make sense as a good method since now with a competitive hand with six spades you have no sensible bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 I usually play 2NT as Lebensohl and double as balanced values. As usual, there's a good case for playing transfers rather than Lebensohl, but I've never tried that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 I usually play 2NT as Lebensohl and double as balanced values. As usual, there's a good case for playing transfers rather than Lebensohl, but I've never tried that. So do I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Somebody has lost it. You have already transferred to hearts. 2S by the opponent then came back around to you. I doubt you have to worry about having 6 spades. If you have an invite in notrump along with your 5 hearts, you can double --not negative, not takeout, just informative. If you have 6 Hearts and an invite you need a way to show it. If you have a side suit and less than game values you need a way to show it. You also need forcing natural bids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_h Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Have never heard of a lebensohl variation in this context. Like Fluffy said, just keep it simple and play system on. 2NT invite, X takeout, 3x nat GF. If I were to play with a pick-up partner that's what I would also assume. This doesn't really make sense as a good method since now with a competitive hand with six spades you have no sensible bid.I never mentioned if it was a good or a bad method? The OP asked what 3♣ is, are you really going to assume anything else but GF with no agreements with partner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Wayne is talking about what to do with 6 hearts and few values, if system is fully on, 3♥ would be invitational, but obviously this is not your intention either. Limit balanced values are ok doubling, but with 6 hearts I'd rather guess to bid 3 or 4 now than risk to play 2♠X. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 I did mean six hearts or whatever suit was transfered to. I didn't interpret the initial question of what to do in this auction when you have no agreements. I suppose it could be interpreted that way. But rather what do you play in this situation? or what should one play in this situation? System ON doesn't seem like a very sensible method - basically ignore the competitive aspect of the auction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachy Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Matter of meta-agreements. For me: All strange bids are forcing and natural if there is any chance they could be natural. However, the 3C bid is not strange. It is obviously natural and logically forcing. How else is responder going to bid a hand like xx-AQJxx-x-KQJxx or something resembing this one? I assumed strong NT opening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFA Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Competitve and non-forcing. X would be take-out. I'm more used to 12-14NT's, but I would prefer the same after a strong notrump. Being able to get suits in is crucial for good competitive results. Similarly I play responder's balances at the 2- or 3-level in a new suit after an opening bid of 1 of a suit as nonforcing. Works great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted August 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 We almost always play matchpoints and there I don't think it is so important to be able to show a strong hand with interest in a club contract. Those hands will usually double or otherwise make an omnibus 3♠ bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 a bright student asked, if 3C is not forcing is it an alert? I see from the answers here, and from what I can decipher from the ACBL, that if 3C is not so undoubtedly forcing that it could be called wildly unusual if treated as nonforcing --then it is natural and not alertable. I wonder, though --if there were not so many who are influenced by playing weak notrumps ---whether it would be closer to unanimous. But the answer would still be the same about an alert. If they don't know it should be forcing, how would they know to alert if nonforcing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Hi, Without special agreements GF, at least 5-4.You could play it at competitive, if you play 2NT as somekind of Lebensohl / Good Bad. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Shouldn't that be "Grosvenor gambit"? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.