1C-(1S)-X-(2S)-3D The meaning of 3D?

[petsei]

Hi all,

Is there among expert players an universal agreement about fundamental questions like does a bid show reverse strength after partners negative double?

On the BWS homepage, I found only this:" After one club — (one of a major) — double — (pass) — ?, opener’s two-diamond rebid does not show extra values."

People with whom I were discussing this maintained, that this depended on whether one played responses on the two-level as forcing or not.

IMHO this doesn't make any difference. Thanks for any input.

Peter

[pooltuna]

Hi all,

Is there among expert players an universal agreement about fundamental questions like does a bid show reverse strength after partners negative double?

On the BWS homepage, I found only this:" After one club — (one of a major) — double — (pass) — ?, opener’s two-diamond rebid does not show extra values."

People with whom I were discussing this maintained, that this depended on whether one played responses on the two-level as forcing or not.

IMHO this doesn't make any difference. Thanks for any input.

Peter

This is not a reverse because the 2♦ bidder is in effect supporting one of the doubler's "suits."

[nigel_k]

I doubt there is any near unanimous agreement on this but it must depend on precisely what double means.

 

If the double is simply negative or for takeout, then you are basically supporting partner's suit, i.e. 1♣-1♠-X-2♠-3♦ is similar to 1♣-P-1♦-2♠-3♦.

 

I'd prefer to play that 1♣-1♠-X is just hearts, i.e. would have bid one heart if they hadn't overcalled, then a diamond bid by opener is a 'new' suit and so a reverse.

[Phil]

Is there among expert players an universal agreement about fundamental questions like does a bid show reverse strength after partners negative double?

This is not a reverse because the 2♦ bidder is in effect supporting one of the doubler's "suits."

As you will see, this is far from a universal opinion on BBF and elsewhere.

 

The subject line auction (3♦), however, is definitely a reverse.

[aguahombre]

The logic being that Opener, not really sure partner even has diamonds, must be able to handle the 4-level in clubs when he bids 3D. However, the 2D rebid also carries some inferences ---especially if Opener would start with 1D with equal balanced or 4-5 in the two suits and minimum.

[helene_t]

We have had this discussion many times before.

 

What is considered standard seems to vary by country. I think it has more to do with the way negative doubles are taught to beginners, than with the way experts play them. At least if you play 5-card majors (or bid up the line as many do in Scotland, Netherlands and Scandinavia), you can't afford to require the double to show both unbid suits because you would lose the heart suit too often then. So most if not almost all experts play dbl as showing hearts only.

 

Even if 1♣-(1♠)-dbl-(pass)- 2♦ is nonforcing this 3♦ bid should be forcing, though. I would be very surprised to find an expert pair palying strong notrump and 5-card majors who play that as nonforcing, although there are probably some who would teach beginners to play it as nonforcing.

[Quantumcat]

He should have extra strength because he can pass and wait for another double from responder, and he can also double, too. I'm not sure what a double from opener would show - maybe a good hand with three hearts and four diamonds and not six clubs, and short spades of course.

[Cascade]

Hi all,

Is there among expert players an universal agreement about fundamental questions like does a bid show reverse strength after partners negative double?

On the BWS homepage, I found only this:" After one club — (one of a major) — double — (pass) — ?, opener’s two-diamond rebid does not show extra values."

People with whom I were discussing this maintained, that this depended on whether one played responses on the two-level as forcing or not.

IMHO this doesn't make any difference. Thanks for any input.

Peter

This is not a reverse because the 2♦ bidder is in effect supporting one of the doubler's "suits."

I don't believe a negative double promises diamonds.

[mike777]

nonexpert response:

 

 

1c=(1s)=x=(2s)

 

 

I play leb.. so........

1) 3d by opener shows extras

2) 2nt which forces 3c and then 3d shows competitive