aguahombre Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 During the Semi's of the Wagar, this year, one of the Vugraph commentators asked why, for such a prestigious event, there were only 14 teams entered. There were some brief comments about event choices, etc. Anyone care to open this can of worms? I have some theories carried over from way back when we were more in tune with the tournament trail and the people. Think I will keep them to myself unless others mention it. We all know there are many, many more fine female players who choose to play in different events. Why don't they converge upon the major women's K.O. championships? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel_k Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 Avoiding giving offence has never been one of my strengths so here goes: I think it borders on insulting to even have womens' events. There is no reason that women can't compete and win against men, and plenty of women have done so. It's not athletics. The womens' events actually hold women back. If there were special events only for left-handers and anyone left handed was encouraged to play in those events, over time the effect would be that the standard of the top right handed players would increase relative to the left handed players just because they would be swimming in a larger talent pool. If top women players refuse to enter the Wagar they are making the right choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elianna Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 I asked a a female sponsor (who often hires female pros) why she didn't enter the Wagar this year; and she said that it was a feeling of "been there, done that", and she was ready to move on. I personally choose to not play in the Wagar for two reasons (no particular order):1) It is MUCH harder for me to find a female partner and female teammates than it is to find teammates who can be any gender. 2) The Wagar seems to have a bad vibe to me. Everyone is in a bad mood, and the field is so small, you kind of feel like you're playing in an event that no one wants to play in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 A couple more things about this: (1) The mini-spingolds have reduced the size of the field somewhat for both Spingold and Wagar. (2) A team of aspiring young players can enter the Spingold and hope to play for a couple days. The first match is typically a four-way with three advancing, and on the second round a team that's pretty far down the seeds might still draw a team they can upset. Several teams did this in the current Spingold. In the smaller field of the Wagar, a team of aspiring young players is likely to face a top professional team in a head-to-head match in the first round and lose on the first day. This makes it a lot less appealing to enter the event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted August 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 What is Jill's opinion, you two? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachy Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 I find it extremely peculiar that there are separate Women's events, and agree with nigel-k that it feels like an insult to Women because gender is not a factor in bridge. I haven't really researched the history of why this is so if someone knows, share please how it all began and why the separate events still exist! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 Perhaps one reason that the Wagar is not as popular as it once was is that there are far fewer Women's events at sectionals and regionals. So, there's not much incentive to form regular teams (or pairs) of women. The ACBL has reason to keep the Women's events on the NABC calendar because these events are used for seeding/qualification for the USBF Women's Trials to pick teams for World Championship play. Until that changes (or the WBF eliminates Women's events) I expect the events are here to stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdanno Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 I wish the USBF would award seeding points for teams of women playing open events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3for3 Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 The USBF does reward points for Woman's teams in open events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 But probably winning the Wagar is easier than winning the Spingold -- not because of the gender, but simply because the field is more limited, and the best women have chosen to play in the Spingold instead. So if your goal is to earn seeding points, you have a better chance in the Wagar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 [T]he best women have chosen to play in the Spingold instead. Is this true? At least where American women are concerned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted August 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 [T]he best women have chosen to play in the Spingold instead. Is this true? At least where American women are concerned?not in my humble opinion...Kerry will always rank among the best as far as I am concerned......and Lynn, and etc, etc, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 Avoiding giving offence has never been one of my strengths so here goes: I think it borders on insulting to even have womens' events. There is no reason that women can't compete and win against men, and plenty of women have done so. It's not athletics. The womens' events actually hold women back. If there were special events only for left-handers and anyone left handed was encouraged to play in those events, over time the effect would be that the standard of the top right handed players would increase relative to the left handed players just because they would be swimming in a larger talent pool. If top women players refuse to enter the Wagar they are making the right choice. I strongly agree with this view. That was also the view held by Jill Blanchard in her law suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobowolf Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 Avoiding giving offence has never been one of my strengths so here goes: I think it borders on insulting to even have womens' events. There is no reason that women can't compete and win against men, and plenty of women have done so. It's not athletics. The womens' events actually hold women back. If there were special events only for left-handers and anyone left handed was encouraged to play in those events, over time the effect would be that the standard of the top right handed players would increase relative to the left handed players just because they would be swimming in a larger talent pool. If top women players refuse to enter the Wagar they are making the right choice. I strongly agree with this view. That was also the view held by Jill Blanchard in her law suit. Oh, the irony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjbrr Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 Do those who feel that Women's only events are unnecessary feel the same way about Seniors events? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerE Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 Yes, but for entirely seperate reasons. When ~90% of the membership qualifies as senior, what's the point? If the age limit was higher... 70 or even 75, then it might have a point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel_k Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 I agree with Tyler about the Seniors. At some point your brain starts to slow down. Hamman is still world class but he is coming off a previously godlike skill level. With so many older players and the biological fact of their brains slowing down, it's right to have a separate category for them. But the age limit should be higher. The same doesn't apply to women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 Avoiding giving offence has never been one of my strengths so here goes: I think it borders on insulting to even have womens' events. There is no reason that women can't compete and win against men, and plenty of women have done so. It's not athletics. The womens' events actually hold women back. If there were special events only for left-handers and anyone left handed was encouraged to play in those events, over time the effect would be that the standard of the top right handed players would increase relative to the left handed players just because they would be swimming in a larger talent pool. If top women players refuse to enter the Wagar they are making the right choice. I strongly agree with this view. That was also the view held by Jill Blanchard in her law suit. Oh, the irony. I don't understand this comment. Can you explain it please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickRW Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 I think I tend to agree with the comments in this thread. But I note that most of the posters appear to be men - what do women actually think? Or should we take it that the lack of entries - and the lack of comment here - means that they generally agree too? Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 Avoiding giving offence has never been one of my strengths so here goes: I think it borders on insulting to even have womens' events. There is no reason that women can't compete and win against men, and plenty of women have done so. It's not athletics. The womens' events actually hold women back. If there were special events only for left-handers and anyone left handed was encouraged to play in those events, over time the effect would be that the standard of the top right handed players would increase relative to the left handed players just because they would be swimming in a larger talent pool. If top women players refuse to enter the Wagar they are making the right choice. I strongly agree with this view. That was also the view held by Jill Blanchard in her law suit. Oh, the irony. I don't understand this comment. Can you explain it please? Jill Blanchard is now Jill Levin and has many victories in...women's bridge. I think that includes a World Championship in a Women's event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted August 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 I think I tend to agree with the comments in this thread. But I note that most of the posters appear to be men - what do women actually think? Or should we take it that the lack of entries - and the lack of comment here - means that they generally agree too? NickElianna made an attempt. I would guess that discretion has won out, and nobody wants to get into the politics. The "bad vibes" comment stopped short, but introduced it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Yes I know that, but why is that ironical? If an event exists and the gverning body does nohing about changing it, I guess you play in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachy Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Do those who feel that Women's only events are unnecessary feel the same way about Seniors events? I am both a woman and a senior. I see some rationality in senior events but none for women's events or Mixed Pairs. If women really needed their own events for whatever reason, then why does that reason then not exist at senior age? There are no Senior Women's Events... Because there is no reason, I think. It is all just leftovers from the early times when this was a game for men. Cultural changes have affected women in other ways too than their participation in playing bridge, for example we are no longer referred to as Mrs. John Smith. It is high time the bridge world joined the rest of the worlds. Bridge is marketed as a game that "everyone" can play on equal footing. Those who excel in high level competition, usually have the best suited skills for such activity. It just happens to be mental skills instead of physical. And "if" womens events persist, then for equality's sake there should also be men's events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Elianna and I have played the mixed BAM the last few years, and it's one of the most pleasant national events to play in. It seems that both men and women are on their best behavior for their opposite-gender partners. Mixed events are not really implying that one gender is "better at bridge" than the other, they are just a fun format and seemingly more sociable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerE Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 I think the Mixed events are interesting, but purely because they tend to shake up a lot of the established partnerships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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