Free Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 I have the impression that the atmosphere has turned very hostile in the last couple of years. Whenever someone writes something semi-stupid, controversial, or just hasn't got the newest bidding style, he gets shot down immediately. A perfect example is the endless discussions/games between jdonn and cascade. I like Justin's new approach (not the old one): a simple short LOL carries the message or he just ignores the post. Both approaches don't make a thread go completely off topic and nobody gets insulted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotShot Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 I've been around almost as long as Free and I share the impression that the tone has gotten harsher over the years. Among the 100 members with the most posts there are some, that have been mobbed away. We've lost high quality posters before, and I guess it's perfectly normal to have active and less active phases here in the forum. I can even understand that one does not what to comment on topics that boil up over and over again. How many "bbo and rating system" threads did we have this year? We have 7216 members in the forum, but we don't know how many of them actually posted this month or this year. I think the number or active posters this month is less than 100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 I do not share Phils view. Besides the named ones, we have a lot more internationalists who spread their wisdom, just think of Fred, Skaeran, MFA and Ulven and others who deserves mentioning. But I agree with Frederic, the tone did change and not to the best. But there is no need to complain. If Phil dislikes the quality, he cannot change it.If I do not like the tone, I cannot change it. We just can ignore the posts we dislike and if we feal that there is too much to ignore, we must quit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 I have the impression that the atmosphere has turned very hostile in the last couple of years. Whenever someone writes something semi-stupid, controversial, or just hasn't got the newest bidding style, he gets shot down immediately. A perfect example is the endless discussions/games between jdonn and cascade. I like Justin's new approach (not the old one): a simple short LOL carries the message or he just ignores the post. Both approaches don't make a thread go completely off topic and nobody gets insulted. You are also one of the people who are missed of course. I disagree with that LOL thing, I know that several people felt insulted when people laughed at their posts. It is totally true that some posts at the advanced/expert forum didn't belong to what experts expected to read there, but sadly it also reads advanced!. A third category of posts in the middle of BIL and A/E might be right, or maybe getting rid of the Advanced category and letting people who feel their problems are not BIL post on general bridge or interesting bridge hands. I also went a bit mad on jdonn when he first came to the forums, but upon realicing that he was just joking everytime and not being really harsh I finnished enjoying his posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 I miss han so much, and will miss josh, Frances isn't posting nearly as much, and some others seem to be gone as well. You haven't been posting much either! More than you!. B). Seriously I don't feel very expert these days, maybe its the heat, but I posted a couple of times and when I came back the next day and reread my post I felt so embarrashed that I wanted to edit my words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickRW Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 It is in the nature of forums in general that posters, good and bad, come and go. Some threads get unnecessarily personal. The best threads confine themselves to the actual bridge issues. Posts from less well informed people may not be too helpful to the more advanced poster/reader, but are, it should not be forgotten, potentially very valuable to the less well informed readers - provided that their arguments are taken apart constructively - not with a "you #!$%@hole". I suppose this can get tedious if it is the tenth time you've had to do it! Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 I am sorry if the tone has become more hostile of late. I don't actually feel that it has, other than the fact that the water cooler forum allows more rock-em sock-em discussions. There is often stuff in there I would moderate, but fortunately that forum is not under my control or moderation. Perhaps it is that we allow disagreement when it attacks the ideas in a post, and not poster. A lot of the regulars have become good at figuring out how to do this on the edge of the rules. Most people take this kind of comment ok, others do not. For instance, I have been asked upon occassion to delete post with a reply of just one word... lol. The reason I do not, is this expresses a view about the content of the post rather than the poster. There is no doubt that I should have delete Cascade's characterization of jdonn's post as being full of "scoffing and sarcasm." The reason I haven't is I didn't see it until just now, and it has been here long enough so that all the regulars have read it. It is getting difficult to moderate so many forums. On the plus side, I haven't heard much out cry about "censorship" in the last few years. My recollection is there was some discussion of it (or in that case lack of it) in the post about how evil one line post are (argument we should delete teh lol response only threads), there was another one about censorship in the gaming site when some was banned for inappropriate language at a table in Febuary. The last really difficult discussion on censorship was after Uday removed a thread and started a discussion on "standards" in the BBF, that was way back in March 2008 (search Standards author Uday if you want to find that thread). Maybe we allow too much. Maybe I should zap Cascade's post and all replies in this thread. But maybe, the community censoring is better -- if it doesn't get out of hand -- like jlall's response to it. BTW, we still do edit and we still do remove post, as needed. I get about one complaint a week on average about something being inappropriate and the majority of these complaints have merit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted July 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 In an ideal world, we'd have 20 or 30 world class players that are currently in the Spingold (or the Wagar, or the Senior Swiss), gathering tons of hands and posting next week after DC wraps up. The same will be true after Brazil next month. I do expect Han, Cherdano and Sathya (sorry if I missed anyone) to post some hands. I would also hope Ulf and Fred do the same. The growth of BBO has been very steep over the last few years. I am hard pressed to think of very many top-level players that I have NOT seen at one time or another on BBO. So why hasn't BBF kept up? I'm at a loss. I do think one of the reasons is the unregulated nature of the A/E section. Many of the problems are not suitable, and you have everyone and their dog bringing in their 'me too' opinions. Justin had some great suggestions. Why weren't these followed-up on? If I were a new, advancing player, but I didn't know Codo from Harluk from Phil from Han from Mike777, I would not have a clue what to take from these discussions. I know, for a fact, that many good players email problems back and forth, and there is no reason why this couldn't occur on BBF. I kind of miss the good old days. While I have lost some sleep in the past going toe-to-toe with Justin on some of the more controversial hands over the years, I honestly believe that spirited debate, even if it gets a little nasty at times, is the way that all of us get better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y66 Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Personally, I like the idea that people come and go. I'll miss jdonn's posts (and occasional sarcasm) a lot and I hate to see good players like mikeh, franceshinden, han, gerben, cherdanno, gnasher, dburn, fred and many others posting less frequently. After reading jdonn's 10000th post recently, I started reading through some of his older posts, and others'. There sure is a lot of good stuff there, as vin1990 points out, and I don't think, for as long as I play bridge, I'll get tired of reading it. Wouldn't mind if an entrepreneurial forum mate with some editing ability* made it easier to find the better stuff but stumbling on something good has its own rewards. That old thread gwnn recently re-posted re: 1♦-(3♣)-X-(P)3♠-(P)-4♥ was a classic and hard to beat for entertainment and bridge wisdom, imo. So, yeah, thank you and farewell to those of you who have contributed so much and have decided to move on. And welcome to new posters. Maybe some of you will take up the slack. I'm sure you will. No pressure! :) * Where have you gone Chamaco? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachy Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 I'll miss jdonn's posts (and occasional sarcasm) a lot Has he announced he is no longer going to participate? If so, it will be a loss to these forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y66 Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 I think so yeah. He recently said goodbye in a post in the water cooler. First Farrah then Michael then jdonn. It's been a tough summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 I miss Luis and Misho. Those were the good old days :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skjaeran Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 I'll definitely miss Josh's posts if he doesn't return. There's a lot to learn from him. I also miss Justin's serious posting. And I really hope Mike won't stay away for too long. I'd like to see Han returning too - I like his kind of jokes. I'm sure Fred and Ulf will continue posting occasionally - good to see them around. We have to live with people posting in the A/E forum things that really don't belong there - according to the WC posters and real experts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 removed, forums is what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobowolf Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Deleting or cracking down on sarcasm: 9Ignoring sarcasm: 9(matter of style/taste/the desired atmosphere on a wide continuum) Deleting or cracking down on complaints about sarcasm while ignoring the sarcasm: -4 (would be -6, but it does have some inherent humor value) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Lobowolf I completely love and agree with the second half of your signature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 I miss han so much, and will miss josh, Frances isn't posting nearly as much, and some others seem to be gone as well. But we get new recruiments, not everything is trash. My company have implemented some new internet filtering software, and the forums appear in the 'banned' category of computer games. So no more posting in odd spare moments from work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlall Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 I predict josh will come back. Would be nice to see Han back as well, and Frances always posted the best play problems (as well as having cogent comments). Waldkk is infrequent, Reisig hasn't posted in a very, very long time. And with no disrespect to recent arrivals, these are big shoes to fill. At the risk of making things worse (or better, depending on your p.ov.) I intend to stop posting for a while.... if I miss it, I'll be back... but if not.... I'll get more work done and maybe have more time for playing bridge. :rolleyes: Goodbye dude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtvesuvius Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 Between Josh, Han, Frances, Arend, Gonzalo and many others not posting any more, it seems that the forum has lost some of it's momentum. I loved reading some of the discussions or arguements between two excellent posters. I even miss Nuno not posting as much (:)). While it's true there are still plenty of good posters on the forum, there does seem to be a lower quality of content, and it's just not the same without them. I also have not been posting as much lately, I've been all over the place playing bridge. Sadly I cannot remember as many hands as I want to, but I will try to post some things in the next few days as I remember them if possible. I joined shortly before "han" retired, but his and Josh's posts, while sometimes harsh, were always direct and to the point. They were responses I could trust, and while some of the newer members may be excellent players, we may just need to wait a little while to be able to identify who they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1303 Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 I must admit I don't post here very often either these days. However, I still read the forums every day that I'm near a computer, just as I play less and less bridge, my desire to contribute to issues is less. I'm not up on the top names in bridge any longer. People's life changes from time to time. Maybe at some point in life I'll get back into bridge a lot more and I'll post more. I imagine this happens to a lot of people(Not that I'm saying that my posts are at all interesting). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmat Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 I joined shortly before "han" retired, but his and Josh's posts, while sometimes harsh, were always direct and to the point. They were responses I could trust, and while some of the newer members may be excellent players, we may just need to wait a little while to be able to identify who they are. I have no idea what you are talking about -- I still post... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytoox Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 This really reminded me of those good days when Fred and Ben were around almost all the time, answering or discussing different questions. (I know Fred and Ben are still around the forum, but definitely not that active as we hoped:() Not sure if there is still a bidding poll, but 3 or 4 years ago there was a bidding poll initiated by Ben and others. It was really entertaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytoox Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Wow, just check my BBF member No., it is no. 609. 6 years has gone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 The online bidding poll is still there, last one was in December 2008, finished on january 2009. It takes a lot of work to do it. But if oyu are interested you might try to run your own. You will get a lot of entries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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