ATB: GNT B semifinals

[Mbodell]

Rotated for convenience, and there were many boards that could win this match, but this is an interesting one where there were lots of chances not to lose the match (-1 IMP on the board is good enough to win match).

 

[hv=d=s&v=n&n=sj76532hakt64d8c7&w=skth9dqjtckqj8652&e=s8h852dak7632ca93&s=saq94hqj73d954ct4]399|300|Scoring: IMP

P (by system, denies 10 HCP) - 1♣ - 2♣ (michaels) - 2♦

4♠ - 5♣ - 5♠ - 6♣

P - P - P[/hv]

 

T1 ♥K 2 Q 9

tank

T2 ♥A (claimed making 6)

[jillybean]

Why did North continue ♥'s, what is their signaling?

[ArtK78]

This is a cash out situation. South's signal should be a count signal. I cannot tell from the play of the Queen whether it was or was not, so I cannot assign the blame. If NS are playing standard signals, then 100% to North. If not, then 100% to South.

 

I once lost a GNT match in a similar situation. I have not got it wrong since then.

 

By the way, the idea of blameing your teammates who played in 5♣ making 11 tricks off two cashing aces is absolutely beyond bizarre.

[quiddity]

Assume the count signal was correct. From North's perspective, is it possible for South to hold doubleton Qx?

[sfi]

I would take the signal as attitude since South is the one who has a much better idea of which trick to cash than North does. South needs to play the most discouraging heart at trick one to get a spade switch, and the queen doesn't look like the right one.

 

North might still get it wrong, but North will definitely continue hearts after an encouraging signal.

[jillybean]

South needs to play the most discouraging heart at trick one to get a spade switch, and the queen doesn't look like the right one.

It is if they play UDA

[sfi]

South needs to play the most discouraging heart at trick one to get a spade switch, and the queen doesn't look like the right one.

It is if they play UDA

Clearly they weren't though. Otherwise North would have switched.

[the hog]

With that dummy, the Q of H screams for a S shift.

[jillybean]

South needs to play the most discouraging heart at trick one to get a spade switch, and the queen doesn't look like the right one.

It is if they play UDA

Clearly they weren't though. Otherwise North would have switched.

Perhaps, unless North knew better. Can't vote without knowing agreements.

[jdeegan]

:) Was it Beavis? Or was it Butt-head? Unless Beavis is deaf, he knows from the auction a second ♥ won't cash. All Butt-head can do is give a suit preference signal to deny a ♦ void. I would imagine the ♥ queen would do.

 

Oops. Looked at the hand and thot I bid 4♥. Actually a good problem. I would try the ♥ jack. Its wake up and shows count.

[se12sam]

IMO this has nothing to do with N/S carding agreements. The trick lies in the bidding.... When South passed as dealer, he denied 10 HCP (per OP condition). Therefore, the ♥Q has to call for a spade lead. West cannot be void in spades.

 

If West was void in ♠, then South would hold ♠AKQT94 and he has shown ♥Q. This is more than 10 HCP and is inconsistent with a first seat pass.

 

100% blame to North.

[Finch]

IMO this has nothing to do with N/S carding agreements. The trick lies in the bidding.... When South passed as dealer, he denied 10 HCP (per OP condition). Therefore, the ♥Q has to call for a spade lead. West cannot be void in spades.

 

If West was void in ♠, then South would hold ♠AKQT94 and he has shown ♥Q. This is more than 10 HCP and is inconsistent with a first seat pass.

 

100% blame to North.

This one is silly. Why can't South have KQxxx QJx in the majors?

 

I am astonished at some of the comments here.

 

At jillybean says, it is impossible to assign blame without knowing the NS agreements about signalling. South can't suddenly decide to give a suit preference signal if North was expecting to see a count signal.

 

So if the NS agreement is that a king lead against a slam asks for normal count, South played the correct card.

 

If the NS agreement is that a king lead asks for normal attitude, then (i) North should have led the ace, and (ii) South should have discouraged.

[mich-b]

I think that South could have done better in the bidding, by bidding 4♦ showing he holds BOTH majors.

Then they surely would not get this defense wrong, and would be better placed for 5 level decisions.

[A2003]

6♣ bid is based on singleton suit somewhere.

Looking at dummy, ♥ singleton is possible, so ♠shift.

 

If South has KQxxx QJx in the majors?

With QJx ♥, Play J♥ indicating another trick in ♥available to set.

This is playing standard signal.

Playing Q♥ to show the possession of J♥ is not important, since only one more trick needed to set.

If South has QJ♥ stiff, still plays J♥.

Unusual high/low cards should be reserved for obvious shift somewhere principle.

Anyway, this is my opinion.

[TimG]

With QJx ♥, Play J♥ indicating another trick in ♥available to set.

How does south know that north has 5 hearts instead of 6? After the play of the Jack, north will "know" that declarer has the Queen and a second heart will cash.

 

It seems to me that North should have made whichever honor lead asks for count and south should give honest count.

[TimG]

By the way, the idea of blameing your teammates who played in 5♣ making 11 tricks off two cashing aces is absolutely beyond bizarre.

Isn't that standard practice for the final poll option?

[A2003]

With QJx ♥, Play J♥ indicating another trick in ♥available to set.

How does south know that north has 5 hearts instead of 6? After the play of the Jack, north will "know" that declarer has the Queen and a second heart will cash.

 

It seems to me that North should have made whichever honor lead asks for count and south should give honest count.

By playing J♥, it implies No A♠,

This is in relation with number cards in dummy.

If you have 6 card ♥ with no A♠, they can make 6♣ anyway.

Honoest count is not helpful here.

How many tricks available in ♥ and A♠ location is the only issue, I think.

Q♥ should show A♠.

[Phil]

Michael: If you are playing at this level (and congratulations on getting to the semis btw), you need to have a good agreement about A/K leads. Many play the K at the 5 level and higher asks for count.

 

So, say you lead the K.

 

You didn't mention originally if you are playing UDCA. If standard, the Q definitely shows the J and an even number. North still might get it wrong and play South for QJ dub, but its better than no agreement.

 

Playing UDCA, you have a similar problem. Q should definitely be stiff Q or QJx.

 

If anyone suggests that South could have bid something other than 4♠ to bring hearts into the picture (and to make the defense easier), lets say I don't agree. Something fancy like 4♣ or 4♦ gives the opponents an extra call.

 

By the way, don't include options like "our teammates fault for stopping in 5♣". Even if you are kidding (I hope you are), such comments are beneath you.

[bid_em_up]

If anyone suggests that South could have bid something other than 4♠ to bring hearts into the picture (and to make the defense easier), lets say I don't agree. Something fancy like 4♣ or 4♦ gives the opponents an extra call.

Who cares? Which is more important, giving them an extra call, or allowing our side to judge our assets properly in the bidding and defense?

 

By bidding 4C or 4D (when we have those bids available), we let partner know that we are on a double fit. This can be a major difference in judging whether we want to defend or take the sacrifice. Even taking a "phantom" sac in 6M wins the board, when our teammates properly stopped in 5C. Additionally, if partner knows we have a double fit, the QH becomes a clear demand for a spade switch (in standard suit preference methods), making it another reason to show both fits.

 

Personally, as South and having failed to show both suits at my first chance, I would bid 6H over 6C anyway. North's bid of 5S should either show extra distribution or extra strength (or both). 6M is unlikely to ever be more than minus two and thats still a good sac over 5C and a great sac over 6C (when its making, legitimately or otherwise).

 

jmoo.

[Stephen Tu]

Strongly agree with Frances, as I often do. Std carding is lead of K from AKx at 5 level or above = COUNT. South can't decide to use something else based on his heart length since North has no idea.

[the hog]

I get the distinct impression a number of other posters might have allowed this through. Playing standard carding, the Q shows an even number as well as screaming "Play a spade".

[Mbodell]

FWIW we are playing standard count and upside down attitude and usually signal attitude first. In addition, we lead A from AK in suits EXCEPT against high level contracts where A asks attitude and K asks count. So North knows that South has an even number of hearts (or maybe is violating as some kind of alarm signal never explicitly discussed).

 

And yes, I obviously included the teammates option in the poll for the ability to tell what happened at the other table and give people a "no vote" option since you obviously can't blame teammates for beating double dummy par by 300 (and we certainly don't blame our teammates in general, and specifically certainly can't here on this hand, nor in the semifinal match as partner and I had the worst card of the 3 pairs in the semifinal match)!

 

To switch or not to switch is obviously one key question, but it isn't the only one by any means. FWIW, I've polled ~10 players on site in DC ranging from quite good to BBO stars, giving them single dummy the N hand, and 2 find the T2 switch and 8 continue hearts (it was 1 in 7 when I posted this originally which is why I didn't repeat the single dummy problem). There are a lot of places the hand can go differently in addition to the play including either partner bidding 6M, S showing the double fit, N not bidding 5♠ and maybe E will not bid 6♣, etc.

 

Does anyone play any conventions to help with these sac decisions? One I've heard of before, that obviously would have been handy on this board, is that in a situation where you have an agreed suit to potentially sac in then the first person to bid over the candidate slam (South here) will X with exactly 1 trick on defense and pass with either 0 or 2+. Then partner with 2+ tricks on defense when passed to will also pass (and set the contract), and with 0 or 1 tricks when passed to will X (which partner then sits for with 2+ and sacs with 0). If original actor X showing 1 trick then partner can sit with 1+ tricks or sac with 0. That way you always know if you can set the contract (assuming you are each right self evaluating your 1 or 2 tricks). In exchange, you do give up the leitner double in this type of contested auction. On this auction, playing this system, S would X and N would sit for it and it would be very clear to cash the two major A on the first two tricks. We don't play this system though (but clearly every disaster calls for a scientific gadget :)).

 

Ah well, there's always next year. Congrats to the team from Kentucky that beat us and then that won the event today.

[Codo]

I am really surprised that some of you all give count with an honour. I had played the 7 at trick one playing standard count and the 3 otherwise.

 

And the question is never where we should switch to. Partner has 10 major cards. Even if he has 3 Diamonds, declarer must have four for us to have a void. Impossible given the bidding.

 

So if this is a cash out situation, shall we cash a second heart or a a spade is the only possible question.

 

It is norths responsibility to figure out whether south has 2 or 4 hearts.

 

Both is " nearly impossible". South does not hold four hearts, because he had bid 4 Diamond with both majors or 6 spade with a 6/4 hand and if he holds two hearts, it does not matter, because declarer cannot get rid of all his losers in the majors anyway.

 

So the blame goes 100 % to south for not showing his hand in the bidding. This had lead to a set or to a cheap insurance.

[cherdanno]

I am really surprised that some of you all give count with an honour. I had played the 7 at trick one playing standard count and the 3 otherwise.

Come on Roland. This is an urgent count situation, why do you want to preserve a heart honor? If you play the 7, partner won't know whether you have QJ73 or QJ7.

[Jlall]

I am really surprised that some of you all give count with an honour. I had played the 7 at trick one playing standard count and the 3 otherwise.

Come on Roland. This is an urgent count situation, why do you want to preserve a heart honor? If you play the 7, partner won't know whether you have QJ73 or QJ7.

but it's an HONOR!