Finessing after claim once more

[xx1943]

Last month I posted here a problem I had. Declarer claimed and afterwards finessed in spades. Many thanks for all replies. I didn't find this post yet.

Therefore I start a new one.

 

In between Ben found the link for me: (many thanks Ben) ;) old post on hooking after claim

 

 

Today I directed a little tour and the following hand came up a yellow sitting East.

 

[hv=d=w&v=n&n=sak73h987d875cj93&w=sjt42hadkt42cqt84&e=sq985hqt65dq6ck72&s=s6hkj432daj93ca65]399|300|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

The bidding was: pass pass pass 4 Hearts

pass pass pass

 

the play:

1. ♠ J A 5 6 won by N

2. ♥ 7 5 4 A won by W

3. ♦ 2 5 Q A won by S

4. ♣ 6 4 9 K won by E

5. ♦ 6 9 10 7 won by W

6. ♦ K 8 ♣ 2 ♦ 3 won by W

7. ♣ Q 3 7 A won by S

8. ♣ 5 J 8 ♥ 6 won by E

9. ♠ 8

south claims all 5 tricks; claim rejected

9. ......... ♦ J ♠ 2 K won by N

10. ♥ 8 10 J ♣ 10 won by S

11. ♥ K ♦ 4 ♥ 9 Q won by S

12. 13 won by

 

I was called and the yellow (East) said finessing after claim is disallowed.

I looked the board most precisely.

I learned in TD-forum to look what the earlier play was. Declared finessed succesfull in hearts, therefore he knows East has the Q of ♥.

In this sense my decision is: The finesse is allowed.

 

I am not happy with my decision, because in my opinion in real life there is no finesse allowed after a claim. But I know also claims are desired in BBO. In real life there are very few claims at all.

 

Please repeat the notes to my last post (disapeared ?) :D

 

 

Al

[inquiry]

Let's get realistic here. There are two lines of evidence that suggest declearer is going to "find" the right play and hook in ♥.

 

1) West has shown up with 10 hcp (11 if you count you had him play ♠J twice, the ♥Queen he probalby has an opening bid

 

2) The first ♥ hook won, the ♥8 forcing the ♥A. Can there be any doubt that the players intent is to hook again (he could always state this). As a defender I would accept the claim and be thankful for the quick and obvious end to the hand.

 

3) West has shown up with exactly 4♣, 4♦, 1 ♥ so far, and seems a good bet to be 4-1-4-4 from the bidding.

 

As an aside, 4♥ dwon two in punishment enough for NS on this hand for their terrible bidding. What kind of bid is a third seat 4♥ on 1-5-4-3 distibution and a 13 count. And if EW are suppose to be making 3♠ (hard to believe with all those potenital losers. ♠-♠-♠ defense would seem to hold it to 8 tricks (2 ♠, 2♥ ruffs, 1♣, 2♦, 1♥. I would look into NS's bidding on other hands to see if such wild bids are normal for them, but that is a different issue... maybe south is swinging for the fence.

[newmoon]

I learned in TD-forum to look what the earlier play was. Declared finessed succesfull in hearts, therefore he knows East has the Q of ♥.

In this sense my decision is: The finesse is allowed.

 

I am not happy with my decision, because in my opinion in real life there is no finesse allowed after a claim. But I know also claims are desired in BBO. In real life there are very few claims at all.

Of course declarer can claim on the strength of a previous proven finesse. He is assumed to re-take that finesse, if needed.

 

Law70E:

E. Unstated Line of Play (Finesse or Drop) 
The Director shall not accept from claimer any unstated line of play the success of which depends upon finding one opponent rather than the other with a particular card, unless an opponent failed to follow to the suit of that card before the claim was made, or would subsequently fail to follow to that suit on any normal [space]line of play; or unless failure to adopt this line of play would be irrational. 

 

Not to repeat a proven finesse is irrational.

 

 

BTW, In real life, there are far more claims and earlier too, in practice.

 

Newmoon

[sfbp]

Hi All

 

I want to see what anyone thinks about this claim:

 

[hv=d=n&v=n&n=s76hakq9743d2c962&w=sq854ht65dq953ckt&e=sakj32h2dakt6c754&s=st9hj8dj874caqj83]399|300|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

Bidding (sorry if I didnt do this the best way)

 

West North East South

3H 4S P

P P P

 

♥J,5,A,2

♦2,A,7,3

♠A,9,4,6

♠J,T,5,7

♣5,A,T,2

♥8,6,Q,♠2

 

At this point declarer (East) claims. Note that no card was led to the next trick.

 

The claim is rejected. All have followed to the first diamond (trick 2).

 

Now declarer plays the K of diams, and North shows out, and declarer proceeds to make 11 tricks with the aid of the diamond finesse.

 

In face to face bridge this would not be allowed, I think (anyone disagree?)

 

Is it really the case that declarer gets a double-shot at the diamond position?

 

Thanks for your opinions

 

Stephen

[EricK]

Very odd.

 

Why doesn't declarer let the first ♦ run round to dummy?

 

But there are so many clues that point to North not having 4♦. He pre-empted in ♥ in second seat (so surely has at least 6) and has shown 2♠. If he had 4♦ and 1♣, then he probably would have switched to his singelton and not to his 4 card suit headed by the J! Of course, East should play a second round of ♣ first, to confirm that North does not hold a singleton ♣.

 

To imply that East is taking a double shot, is to say that he is smart enough to plan this claiming-early coup, yet not smart enough to find either of the above plays. I am not sure that this holds water.

 

Eric

[xx1943]

Dealer: North Vul: N/S Scoring: MP

♠ 76 ♥ AKQ9743 ♦ 2 ♣ 962 ♠ Q854 ♥ T65 ♦ Q953 ♣ KT ♠ AKJ32 ♥ 2 ♦ AKT6 ♣ 754 ♠ T9 ♥ J8 ♦ J874 ♣ AQJ83

 

Bidding (sorry if I didnt do this the best way)

 

West  North  East South

          3H      4S    P

P        P      P

 

Thanks for your opinions

 

Stephen

Hi all

 

IMO the bidding is very strange. EAST has a clearcut double on 3!H and bids 4!S on a 5-carder finding partner with a 4-carder.

If this player all too often is so "lucky" there are some suspicious facts. :)

 

Al