misclick

[allspice]

Many times, running tournaments where no Undo is allowed, a player calls to tell he misclicked bidding and his bid is completely misleading opps and pd on his holdings. Can you suggest how to proceed?

I try to apply the rules I learnt when TDing live tournaments, but that was about 30 years ago.. and things have changed a lot since then. On those days, opps should know no more than pd knew, so there was no need of explaining. And, of course, there were no misclicks...

I've been telling player to go on bidding, try to correct if possible and after bidding is over, if he is defender, to inform declarer privately that his bid was a misclick; if he is declarer, to inform opps before the lead, that his bid was a misclick, or to inform opps in the alert window, when his bid can affect or modify opps bids.

Is there a rule about it?

I would very much appreciate some brainstorm on this issue!

 

Veronica - allspice :)

[jillybean]

Allow undo's in bidding - legal and illegal changes of call are covered in Law25

 

The TD can turn 'on' undo's, allow for the bid to be corrected and turn undo's 'off' again. It would be nice if undo's for bidding and play were controled independantly but this is a decent work around.

 

If a misclick is not corrected it is correct for the player to explain (if asked) only their partnership agreement for the bid made- they are NOT required to tell their opps that it was a misbid, tell them what they intended to bid or any other information.

[helene_t]

Yes, if players can't undo their misclicks then they shouldn't tell anyone that they misclicked. Opps are entitled only to know your agreements, and misclicks are not something you have agreed on.

 

Not sure if I like the idea of allowing undo during the auction. The thing is, undo should only be allowed in case a of misclick, not in other circumstances, for example when a player passed because he had only 10 points, then afterwards realized that his p had opened. In a friendly game in the main room such undos are ok, but in tournaments they should not be, and then I am inclined not to allow any undos because it is often difficult to assess whether it was a genuine misclick.

 

Maybe if the TD can manage undos during bidding then it's great, I am just too lazy, sorry

[allspice]

I've opened the "undo" option with no hesitation when a player opens 7nt... and leaves... I replace him and open the undo, allow his sub to undo the bid and start again because there has been no other bid except perhaps a double from opps, and eventually a redouble from the bidder... but a fresh start does not give new info to pd or opps.

But there are many times that after the misclick, opps bid or pass. In that case there may be damage for one of the partnerships. And there is no time in clocked tournaments to open the undos, allow the undos and close again the option In additon many times you deal with players who hardly understand the language.

If I allow undo for one table, I have to allow undo for everybody misclicking and that would be an absolute hell in large tournaments. Except, of course, you allow undos for everybody, from the start. But I find this is frequently abused. I rather not allow them.

Veronica - allspice

[jillybean]

IMO, genuine misclicks in bidding are rare and not unmanageable. Recognizing slips of the mouse from a change of mind isn’t too difficult. If a player has a 12 point 5 card spade suit and clicks 1nt but tells me they intended to click 1♠ (1nt/♠ are adjacent in the bidding box), or a pair has been in a heart auction and a player misclicks 6♠, intending 6♥ I will give an undo automatically. Not doing so and having players forced to play in an obviously wrong contract is simply silly and damaging to the rest of the field.

 

OTOH, if an auction goes 1♠ (P) 1N (all pass) and the 1nt bidder with 15 points tells me he misclicked and intended to bid 2♣ (that’s 2 misclicks for a start) I explain the laws and leave them with their bottom board.

 

Sometimes the ‘misclicks’ aren’t as clear and you need to use your judgement, at times you need to monitor the rest of the auction to ensure no UI is used – this is much more fun than replacing missing players and also, its your job.

 

If you are running large, speedball type games you wont have a hope in hell of doing much more than subbing missing players. Make it clear in the tournament description that no undo’s for bidding or play are allowed and refer any complaints there :(

[blackshoe]

I agree with Jilly, up to a point. "Duplicate bridge tournaments should be played in strict accordance with the laws." (Law 72A). "The director ... is bound by these laws..." (Law 81B2). There are appropriate changes to the laws due to the online environment. Ignoring Law 25A is not, IMO, one of them. Regarding large speedballs and a regulation in those tournaments that effectively abolishes Law 25A, I'm less certain. But certainly if you're going to do it, announcing it in advance is a necessity.

[allspice]

Ok. And what about result? Adjust? A ridiculous contract might affect the rest of the results in the tournament.

i.e.: if everybody plays and wins 4 hearts and a pair plays, lets say 5 spades because on account of a misclick on the 1st round player believes his pd has spades and corrects contract to spades in a competitive bidding ... he going down will affect all of the other results of the hand.

And IF adjusting, would that be A== / A+- (minus to the pair who misclicked?) or just leave the result as it is....

Many times a TD arrives a the table when "all is cooked" already...

Veronica - allspice

[helene_t]

No you certainly shouldn't adjust because of a misclick. The reason for not allowing undo is either that you don't trust that it is a genuine misclick (in which case there is no need for adjustment), or that you don't have time to investigate whether it is a genuine misclick (in which case you don't have time to investigate it aimed at adjusting, either).

 

If you are concerned about this, allow undo.

[jillybean]

I agree with Jilly, up to a point. "Duplicate bridge tournaments should be played in strict accordance with the laws." (Law 72A). "The director ... is bound by these laws..." (Law 81B2). There are appropriate changes to the laws due to the online environment. Ignoring Law 25A is not, IMO, one of them. Regarding large speedballs and a regulation in those tournaments that effectively abolishes Law 25A, I'm less certain. But certainly if you're going to do it, announcing it in advance is a necessity.

In an ideal world we would all be playing bridge, following the same set of laws but we're not. I believe once you move that far outside the laws (not allowing undo's, psyches etc) its irrelevant what rules you decide to use or adjustments you make.

 

This is an old arguement with one group thinking you run the game to keep the players and TD's happy, others thinking its not bridge if you dont follow the laws.

Never the twain shall meet.

[runewell]

This is a big can of worms. If the conditions are no undos, then there simply ought not be any. Otherwise, other people that might also benefit from an otherwise legitimate undo will not because they are playing by the rules and living without them.