Basic 2/1 question

[vuroth]

[hv=d=e&v=n&n=sqth87daqt852cak8&s=saj9haq9642dj9cj5]133|200|Scoring: MP

1♥ 2♦

2♥ ...[/hv]

 

According to Thurston, 2♥ can be a 5 card suit. Should North bid 2NT or 3♦? How will N/S find the 8 card heart fit, instead of winding up in 3NT? I couldn't find the continuations in Thurston.

 

Thanks.

 

V

[mcphee]

The 2H rebid on 5 is fine when no other re-bid is suitable. Responder can now stress D rebidding D, even 3C is quite sensible here as the opening hand is unlikely to raise C with 4 cards and a minimum hand passing 3N. 3C allows the opening hand to offer 3N or belated D support. The thing I want to consider is do I feel this hand is worth slam investigation of any sort, I think it's close but a bit thin and might have communication issues at a high level but I would invite with 4N should partner bid 3N after my 3C.

[jdonn]

North should definitely rebid 2NT (NOT 3♦ or 3♣!!!) Now there are two basic ways to find the 6-2 fit. Either south can make his third bid in a minor if he has a reasonable holding there and north can bid 3♥. Or south can simply bid his hearts a third time, which is perfectly acceptable holding six.

[helene_t]

In my humble and non-standard opinion, it should go

1♥-2♦

2♥-2NT

3NT-4♥

 

3NT shows six hearts since a 12-14 balanced hand would rebid 2NT (or maybe or show 3-card diamond support after responder's 2NT, if you can't stomach bidding 2NT with a missing stopper in a black suit).

 

Alternatively (more normal approach),

1♥-2♦

2♥-2NT

3♥-4♥

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

2H can be a 5 card suit, this is a consequence of requesting, that

a (high) reverse showes add. values, what ever "add. values"

mean and some times you have 5 hearts, 4 clubs and 3 spades

with a min HCP count.

Of course you can drop this request.

 

You will discover the 6-2 fit, if you require that a 2NT / 3NT rebid

showes a semi bal. hand, i.e. at least 2 cards in each suit.

 

Assuming 2D is forcing upto 3NT or 4D, you should bid 3D, after all

you have a good 6 card suit, and you only showed 4 upto now.

If 3D could be passed, I would prefer a 3C bid to 2NT, 3C showes

values and 5 diamonds, and you dont have a solid spade stopper.

After 3C opener can bid 3H to show the 6 carder, if responder is

interested in a spade stopper he can ask with 3S.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[nick_s]

North should definitely rebid 2NT (NOT 3♦ or 3♣!!!)

Could you explain the reasoning behind this statement please, so 2/1 noobs like me can understand.

Thanks

[jdonn]

North should definitely rebid 2NT (NOT 3♦ or 3♣!!!)

Could you explain the reasoning behind this statement please, so 2/1 noobs like me can understand.

Thanks

You leave partner a lot more room. You still don't miss diamonds when it's right (can bid 3♦ over 3♣, partner can bid 3♦ himself). Most importantly, you don't overemphasize diamonds. And you don't waste all your room to investigate.

[mikeh]

I agree with josh.... but I would not rebid 2N as North if my spades were any weaker.. they are borderline as it is.

 

As Opener, I would simply raise 2N to 3N and, frankly, wouldn't even consider another call. I have spades well under control, and usually useful diamond holding and something in clubs that will often help.

 

So I miss the 6-2 heart fit. I don't care.

 

And neither should anyone else....look at how the hand plays... it is easy to see how 4♥ can fail....there are a lot of possible bad breaks that can doom that contract. Now take a look at 3N. Which contract do you want to be in?

 

Now, make S Ax AQxxxx Jxx Jx, and over 2N we have an easy 3♦ and responder, who has doubt about notrump with Q10 in spades and a partner who chose not to bid 3N, can bid 3♥. This would usually be based on Hx, but I would make an exception in this case, with that spade holding. Now Opener bids the major suit game.

[Jlall]

Furthermore south should bid 3S over 2H, showing 3 goodish spades and 6 hearts.

[Phil]

Furthermore south should bid 3S over 2H, showing 3 goodish spades and 6 hearts.

...assuming 2♠ over 2♦ doesn't show extras (which seems to be the trend).

[Jlall]

Furthermore south should bid 3S over 2H, showing 3 goodish spades and 6 hearts.

...assuming 2♠ over 2♦ doesn't show extras (which seems to be the trend).

Even if you play the (silly) agreement that 2S would show extras, then north must bid 2S with 4 spades over 2H. If you are still trying to cater to a 4-4 spades fit after 1H 2D 2H 2N your methods are seriously flawed, and you lose out on the very important hand type of 3 good spades, 6 hearts, the equivalent of 1S 2D 2S 2N 3H.

[jdonn]

Furthermore south should bid 3S over 2H, showing 3 goodish spades and 6 hearts.

...assuming 2♠ over 2♦ doesn't show extras (which seems to be the trend).

Even if it does, you want 3♠ over 3♥ to be a 4-5 min? I don't think that's playable.

[the hog]

"Even if you play the (silly) agreement that 2S would show extras"

 

In your opinion perhaps. Many fine players do not regard it as "silly".

[mike777]

I thought this an extremely difficult 2/1 style hand.

 

See versions.

 

 

1h=2d

2h(six)=2nt?

3nt?=p?

[Codo]

Besides the discusssion how to reach 4 Heart. (1♥ 2 ♦ 2 ♥ 2 NT 3♥ 4 ♥)

 

Why do I ever want to reach 4 heart with these hands at mps?

 

3 NT is the much better contract in 90 % of all possible hands from the opponents with 2+ stoppers in both black suits and diamonds which are much easier to develop then hearts.

[mike777]

Besides the discusssion how to reach 4 Heart. (1♥ 2 ♦ 2 ♥ 2 NT 3♥ 4 ♥)

 

Why do I ever want to reach 4 heart with these hands at mps?

 

3 NT is the much better contract in 90 % of all possible hands from the opponents with 2+ stoppers in both black suits and diamonds which are much easier to develop then hearts.

AGain I thought this an extremely difficult hand....

 

 

We may not want to reach 4h but we may indeed reach 4h as nonexperts.

 

 

1h=2d

2h=2nt?=3nt?=p?

 

 

2h=6h

[barmar]

Most of the time when you have an 8-card major suit fit, that's where you want to play. In this case 3NT is a better contract, but it's pretty difficult to determine that in the auction. It's mostly due to the location of J, 10, and 9 cards. If you can find 3NT, good for you, but I think 4♥ would be the common contract with these hands.