Play in the 4th suit?

[Ant590]

This is a general question about raises in the 4th suit, combined with a ATB...

 

BWS system (1NT semi-forcing, 2/1 GF except rebid)

 

[hv=d=n&v=n&n=skxxhkqxxxdkxxxca&s=saqxxhxdaqxckqjxx]133|200|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

1♥ - 2♣

2♦ - 2♠

3♠ - 4♣

4NT - 5♣

AP

 

Our questions are as follows

1) Does raising 4th suit promise 4=5=4=0, or is 3=5=4=1 ok?

2) What should 4♣ mean?

3) I guess this is related to (2), but what should 4NT mean?

4) What slam tries are available after 3♠; is 4NT natural after 3♠?

5) Can responder ever both suggest a spade contract and make a slam try?

6) How should the bidding actually go?

[quiddity]

My guesses:

 

1. Raising the 4th suit should show 4 except in some very rare cases.

 

2. 4C should mean that the spade suit is real (otherwise he'd just bid NT). Not sure if it shows extra distribution or is just a convenient way of agreeing spades before keycard.

 

3. 4NT is keycard for spades

 

4. I think 4nt immediately after 3S is natural and quant.

 

5. He did - with 4C.

 

6. Maybe

 

1H-2C;

2D-2S;

3N-6N.

 

where the jump to 3N shows 15-17?

[Fluffy]

1. raising shows 4 unless you have denied them previously

 

1♦-1♥

2♣-2♠

3♠

 

 

 

2. 4♣ is a cue for spades on your auction, with clubs you bid 3 clubs or 4 clubs the round before.

 

4. The way I play you have denied fit on every suit except spades, so that's your only possible fit.

[zheddh]

Agree with fluffy. For me, 4C is a cue agreeing spades.

[helene_t]

Not sure what 4NT is supposed to mean. Responder is captain so opener should just cue. A natural 4NT makes no sense here, other than "oops my 3♠ bid was a misclick".

 

3♠ is a bad bid. 2NT is descriptive and even the cheapest bid. Maybe 3NT is required to show the moderate extra values. But 2♠ is a natural bid showing exactly four, so you should avoid raising on 3.

 

I think 3♠ can be 4531 if 2♠ would show extras, as it does for most. OK Ron gets angry at the suggestion to bid 2♦ on a 3-card but I don't care :)

[se12sam]

1. Does raising 4th suit promise 4=5=4=0, or is 3=5=4=1 ok?

    Not sure. I'd play 3-5-4-1 as a possibility. After all, 4-5-4-0 is less frequent

2. What should 4♣ mean?

    I'd say extra values, with implicit agreement in spade suit.

3. Not sure about 4NT here. It looks to have stemmed from a misunderstanding.

4. Cue bids and 4NT RKC are both available after 3♠

5. Can responder ever both suggest a spade contract and make a slam try?

    Yes, I'd say the 4♣ bid does exactly that

6. How should the bidding actually go?

     1♥  -  2♣

     2♦  -  2♠*

     2NT  -  3♦

     3♠  -  4NT**

     5♥  -  6NT

 * 2♠ is 4th suit forcing

** To be honest, I'm not sure if this will be interpreted as RKCB for ♠