Is 5CL Makeable? YES or NO

[PFormaini]

[hv=n=s65h5dkj1092cj8763&w=sj1094haq1062d3ck54&e=sq72hkj983d87654c&s=sak83h74daqcaq1092]399|300|[/hv]1♣ - (1♥) - 2♣ - (4♥) - 5♣ - P - P - P

 

Opening lead: 3♦[/NORTHSOUTH]

 

QUESTION: Assuming BEST PLAY and BEST DEFENSE following the opening lead can South make 5 Clubs if the layout is as above?

 

If you answer YES, state your line of play.

 

If your answer is NO, state your justification.

 

(Obviously WEST is threatening to win the 2nd round of trumps, underlead to partner's K♥, and ruff the diamond return.)

[mtvesuvius]

Cayuga.

[se12sam]

Considering 5♣ is cold, maybe E/W should have found the 5♥ sac. What was the vulnerability?

[Mbodell]

Assuming best play means double dummy best play, and quite possible even best IMP play at the table given the auction and opening lead, my money is on YES it makes.

 

My line is

♦A, ♠AK, ruff a ♠. cross to ♣A, exit with the 4th ♠ pitching the ♥ to sever communication. Now West can win ♣K and 4th spade, but the rest of the tricks are N/S.

 

[PFormaini]

se12:

 

5♣ cold? really> Your line of play, please.

 

 

 

mbodell: Um - your line fails miserably. The instant you lead a diamond - West ruffs for the setting trick. Try again. :)

[se12sam]

mbodell: Um - your line fails miserably. The instant you lead a diamond - West ruffs for the setting trick. Try again. :)

When does N/S intend to lead diamond? Mbodell got the line right, but you are adding a twist that does not feature in his line.

[PFormaini]

se

 

'Fraid not. When he leads a heart from dummy, Easy rises with the King and gives partner a diamond ruff.

 

Declarer loses a heart, a diamond ruff, and the King of Clubs.

 

Down 1.

[zheddh]

What are you talking about? Mbodell's line works perfectly well.

[PFormaini]

No, it doesn't, EAST-WENT win a heart, a diamond ruff, and the trump King.

 

SPELL THE LINE OUT PLAY BY PLAY..and I will point out the error. The line is not only 'cold', but doe not even attempt to overcome the main problem of the hand - EAST getting the lead and giving partner a diamond ruff.

[cherdanno]

[PFormaini]

I said SPELL THE LINE OUT TRICK BY TRICK (Modell's 'line' is unreadable to me).

 

And I will show you where it is flawed.

 

So lay the line out TRICK BY TRICK for me, like this:

 

TRICK 1: XXXXXXX

TRICK 2: XXXXXXX

TRICK 3: XXXXXXX

 

I anxiously await this 'line' - which will not work. :)

[zheddh]

No, it doesn't, EAST-WENT win a heart, a diamond ruff, and the trump King.

 

SPELL THE LINE OUT PLAY BY PLAY..and I will point out the error. The line is not only 'cold', but doe not even attempt to overcome the main problem of the hand - EAST getting the lead and giving partner a diamond ruff.

ok, let me give it a shot.

 

Trick 1: Win in hand

Trick 2: Play Ace of spade. All follow

Trick 3: Play King of spade. All follow

Trick 4. Play a spade and ruff it in dummy, all follow

Trick 5. play small trump to Ace, west discards something

 

Trick 6 is important

 

Trick 6: play small spade, LHO plays jack, you PITCH your last heart, RHO discards something

 

Now, your LHO has AQxxx in hearts and Kx in clubs, whatever he does, he CANT get his partner on lead, because dummy will ruff the heart continuation.

 

EDIT: Maybe you posted the problem wrong. Maybe RHO has 4 spades instead of LHO?

[PFormaini]

No, it doesn't, EAST-WENT win a heart, a diamond ruff, and the trump King.

 

SPELL THE LINE OUT PLAY BY PLAY..and I will point out the error. The line is not only 'cold', but doe not even attempt to overcome the main problem of the hand - EAST getting the lead and giving partner a diamond ruff.

ok, let me give it a shot.

 

Trick 1: Win in hand

Trick 2: Play Ace of spade. All follow

Trick 3: Play King of spade. All follow

Trick 4. Play a spade and ruff it in dummy, all follow

Trick 5. play small trump to Ace, east (not west) discards something

 

Trick 6 is important

 

Trick 6: play small spade, LHO plays jack, you PITCH your last heart, RHO discards something

 

Now, your LHO has AQxxx in hearts and Kx in clubs, whatever he does, he CANT get his partner on lead, because dummy will ruff the heart continuation.

 

EDIT: Maybe you posted the problem wrong. Maybe RHO has 4 spades instead of LHO?

You mean the old 'Cut Communiations" Play?

 

Sorry - will not work.

 

WEST wins the SPADE JACK (1 trick).

 

Dummy remains with 3 trumps. (One was led to the Ace and one ruffed a spade)

 

West leads the HEART ACE. Dummy must ruff. And is down to 2 trumps.

 

Declarer must now lead a club, trying to draw trumps. That reduces dummy to 1 trump as West WINS the KING...

 

West now leads another heart - and Dclarer is now DEAD - since he must RUFF THIS in dummy with the last trump.

 

WEST remains with a trump -a nd dummy has only DIAMONDS remaining.

 

Declarer must lead one - WEST ruffs it - DOWN ONE.

 

Care to try again?.

[mtvesuvius]

I said SPELL THE LINE OUT TRICK BY TRICK (Modell's 'line' is unreadable to me).

LOL

[PFormaini]

Like I said - the line of play was not effective - whether spelled out or typed in hidden text (for reasons that are beyond me, since there was no 'SPOILER' involved. I asked for a solution in public, not in private.)

 

:)

 

But it was a nice try, even though it was fruitless.

[ArtK78]

Unless I am missing something, the correct answer to "Is 5♣ makable?" is NO.

 

Modell's line is a nice try. In fact, at first glance, I thought it was the winning line. But PFormaini is right - declarer gets locked in dummy and is forced to play a second round of diamonds, which allows West to ruff for the third defensive trick.

 

I do not see a way out. Can anyone else?

[matmat]

But it was a nice try, even though it was fruitless.

so was your thread. lol.

[IdiotVig]

SPELL THE LINE OUT PLAY BY PLAY..and I will point out the error. The line is not only 'cold', but doe not even attempt to overcome the main problem of the hand - EAST getting the lead and giving partner a diamond ruff.

 

It seems inherently incongruous that someone who implies to have more knowledge than the collective requires a line-by-line explanation of all attempts, for the sole purpose of shooting them down.

[vuroth]

Here's the link to mbodell's line, and the problem the OP is suggesting.

 

Doubt that works, so here's the LINK

 

[hv=d=s&v=n&n=shdkjt9c8&w=shqt62dc5&e=shkj9d87c&s=sh7dqcqt9]399|300|West leads Q♥[/hv]

 

 

FYI, to the OP, use the mouse to select mbodell's ENTIRE post, especialy the space between the symbols. Not immediately obvious if you've never seen it before.

[TimG]

You'd think the availability of free double dummy solvers would make these arguments much shorter.

[mtvesuvius]

I WANT to DEFEND this hand. There is no WAY to make 5 CLUBS after the SMALL diamond LEAD.

[PFormaini]

SPELL THE LINE OUT PLAY BY PLAY..and I will point out the error. The line is not only 'cold', but doe not even attempt to overcome the main problem of the hand - EAST getting the lead and giving partner a diamond ruff.

 

It seems inherently incongruous that someone who implies to have more knowledge than the collective requires a line-by-line explanation of all attempts, for the sole purpose of shooting them down.

t is not incongruous if the 'solution' is not only hidden for some reason, but wrong as well. :rolleyes:

 

You see, not having reason to use the 'hidden features' of the software, why would I spend time looking for them? Why not make it easier on everyone and spell out ones line in the first pace?

(Thanks to the poster who explained the magic of 'hidden text'.

 

Actually, the whole point was to point out a rarely-discussed phenomenon in bridge akin to 'blinders' - wherein a declarer becomes so fixated on one problem that, finding a solution, they do not then extend the play forward to discover any new problems their solution raises.

 

IN this problem (covered in detail in the Editorial of the August 2002 BRIDGE WORLD, declarer (as well as several editors and thousands of subscribers who missed the problem with the Cutoff Coup) ended up falling into the syndrome. The problem with the 'Cutoff Soup" was not spotted for many months after the problem was first presented.

 

modbells's solution is, indeed, an apparent way around the problem of the diamond ruff - but only because nearly everyone stops there - failing to think that a 5-5 trump holding could be exhausted, leaving declarer right where they were at the beginning. The fact that it took so long for ANHONE to catch the problem and report it speak volumes - both as to the cleverness of the solution - and the solution's ultimate failure once the rest of the defense is considered.

 

It is - in short - a fascinating problem AND example of a common problem for many of us when trying to solve difficult problems. WE don;t reconsier what NEW problems our solutions raise.

 

:D

[jdonn]

So the lesson here was that we fail to take off our blinders and consider that the best possible attempt at making won't make, even though all other lines are even worse and there is no way at all to make?

 

Btw, since apparently the frequent sarcasm from so many escapes you, could you show your appreciation of being taught about hidden text by laying off the caps lock key? Thanks!

[Apollo81]

The lesson here is that bridge is an interesting game.

[aguahombre]

Or the lesson might be that if the poster is that insistent, in the face of all the adversity, maybe it is time to rethink....he might be right. I suspect that is why Mtvesuvious and others did not commit to the "solution" early.