the hog Posted June 2, 2004 Report Share Posted June 2, 2004 That method is called Swine, (sebesfi woods 1N extraction), named after its inventors.It is always nice to alert this and when the opponents ask say "We are playing Swine." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted June 2, 2004 Report Share Posted June 2, 2004 That method is called Swine, (sebesfi woods 1N extraction), named after its inventors.It is always nice to alert this and when the opponents ask say "We are playing Swine." Isn't Swine by responder after a direct seat double? Luke Warm is referring to running from your own 1NT on the auction 1N-P-P-X, ?, which I think is clearly wrong, my 'XX=5 card suit' method lets us still punish the opps if they shouldn't have stepped into the auction. If, however, opps play that pass over our runout is now forcing, it may be worth taking advantage of that by letting opener bid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted June 2, 2004 Report Share Posted June 2, 2004 Isn't Swine by responder after a direct seat double?It actually is after both Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted June 2, 2004 Report Share Posted June 2, 2004 Luke Warm is referring to running from your own 1NT on the auction 1N-P-P-X, ?, which I think is clearly wrong, my 'XX=5 card suit' method lets us still punish the opps if they shouldn't have stepped into the auction. If, however, opps play that pass over our runout is now forcing, it may be worth taking advantage of that by letting opener bid! the way we play, responder is supposed to bid any 5 card suit immediately (unless his rho x's), if possible... 2♣ can't be bid unless it's invitational puppet or garbage stayman... so if it goes 1N (p) p (x), responder doesn't have a 5 card major and is otherwise afraid to bid 2♣ allowing the opener to bid something other than xx after 1n (p) p (x) seems to allow a better description of hand types Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulg Posted June 2, 2004 Report Share Posted June 2, 2004 Playing at my local bridge club with a very experienced player I held :- ♠ xxxx♥ KJxx♦ xxx♣ xx My partner opens 1NT ( 12-14) and RHO passes do you :- (i) Pass (and if LHO dbls do u scramble?)(ii) Bid Stayman and do you pass a 2D callI'm late to this topic but this doesn't look like a very poor hand to me! Coming from weak NT country I'm sure no-one at the club would consider anything other than Pass as an initial action. There is a fair chance that the points will be shared amongst the opps and you may get to play in 1NT undoubled - only the true expert doubles with 13 points in 4th! If LHO has a hand that is doubling, then he'll also be doubling a Stayman 2♣ to show a hand that would have doubled 1NT - as regular (even non-expert) defenders know that this is best defence - so I gain little by this action. In terms of opener's actions following a 4th seat double, it is fair to say the few club players will have discussed any methods and would pass in their sleep leaving it to partner. I have seen some experts use redouble to show a 6-card minor, which seems sensible, but no-one considers opener moving from 1NT - it is responder's decision, as he has 0-11 points! Cheers Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted June 2, 2004 Report Share Posted June 2, 2004 If you do something other than pass 1NT on xxxx KJxx xxx xx, you're relinquishing the greatest advantage of playing a weak NT: pressure over the 4th seat. Since the 1NT's pard passes the opening on with 0-10 points (as compared to 0-7 in a normal NT), the 4th is in real trouble estimating how many points partner has. He usually has a tough decision to make, his options being: 1. Sell out to 1NT, hoping to beat you or stay out of trouble. You risk losing your won contract, misdefending, missing a good double on the NT, etc.2. Double. Two-edged weapon. Can go either way.3. Bid something. In this case he's starting his auction at level 2, in clear disadvantage to other people in the field. If you bid 2♣ or 2♦ here, most of his problems are solved... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishovnbg Posted June 2, 2004 Report Share Posted June 2, 2004 Most of good players I know will bid 2♣ with this hand.Misho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted June 2, 2004 Report Share Posted June 2, 2004 Most of good players I know will bid 2♣ with this hand.Misho I wouldn't be that sure Misho :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted June 2, 2004 Report Share Posted June 2, 2004 Playing at my local bridge club with a very experienced player I held :- ♠ xxxx♥ KJxx♦ xxx♣ xx My partner opens 1NT ( 12-14) and RHO passes do you :- (i) Pass (and if LHO dbls do u scramble?)(ii) Bid Stayman and do you pass a 2D call If (i) when do you scramble before LHO can double i.e. with what point count and shape? Steve ok, maybe i missed it (but i did look), what were the two hands? i'm not interested in the opps' hands, just opener's ... thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiBridge Posted June 3, 2004 Report Share Posted June 3, 2004 I consider myself a fairy good player.... I'd have no hesitation in passing the double. I've seen 1NTX make many times, and I've seen many "scrambles" hit for 1100's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted June 3, 2004 Report Share Posted June 3, 2004 Time for some history of the hand imo :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badderzboy Posted June 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2004 The outcome of the hand was I bid 2♣ and my partner bid 2♦ which was passed out. My partner had a 4-4-3-2 hand 1NT goes down 2 or 3 and on some 4! depending on play and isn't doubled nothing lies nicely as AQ♥ is off-side and 2♦ went down 2 and scored an average board. Thanks for all the advice - next time I'll pass the 1NT! Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted June 3, 2004 Report Share Posted June 3, 2004 4-4-3-2??? :P 4♠, 4♥, 3♦ and 2♣??? :D I hope you mean a 2-3-4-4, otherwise you're playing a very weird partner! :P ... or puppet stayman... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedjack Posted June 3, 2004 Report Share Posted June 3, 2004 The outcome of the hand was I bid 2♣ and my partner bid 2♦ which was passed out. My partner had a 4-4-3-2 hand 1NT goes down 2 or 3 and on some 4! depending on play and isn't doubled nothing lies nicely as AQ♥ is off-side and 2♦ went down 2 and scored an average board. Thanks for all the advice - next time I'll pass the 1NT! Cheers Steve Going back to your original question, had you converted 2♦ to 2♥ I reckon that the opps would have been much more likely to find their 3♣ "save", which presumably makes with some ease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted June 3, 2004 Report Share Posted June 3, 2004 thanks but i really wanted to see both hands posted... can you post opener's hand? not just the shape (if that *is* the shape), but the entire hand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trpltrbl Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 I bid 2♣, stayman, and pass pd's next bid. Mike :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 I'm quite convinced that it is right to run immediately, and once you have done there seems no reason to not bid 2♥ as 4-4 majors. It was pointed out that now when you have 5♥4♠ partner will have to correct to ♠ holding 2♥3♠, but this is rare in comparison, and 4-3 fits aren't anything to be afraid of. If you pass, then X is clearly penalties, and it is easier for them to punish you once they have got one double in. If they do not double back in, then you will be left to flounder in 1NT when 2M on a likely 4-4 fit would have been more successful. If, on the other hand, you bid Stayman, then it is harder to punish you, even if they have the agreement that X shows a hand that would have doubled 1NT. This is because if they have agreed that the double promises clubs, there are many hands with which they cannot double - and if they have not agreed that, then after 1NT-P-2C-X, P-? your RHO is often on a complete guess as to where the clubs are. This is assuming your opps have an agreement at all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 1NT* is a nice contract imo (1NT not doubled is even better ofcourse), I probably have around 1.5 tricks when p has some ♥ with me, otherwise probably just 1. I don't see any reason why to go on 2-level with a balanced hand, knowing there's a lot of chance you'll play in a 7-card fit anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 It's kinda like a presumed fit preempt. You open a Frelling 2♦ on a 4-4 shape because it is likely p will have 4 cards with you in one of your suits. Same applies here, and if not a 4-3 could well still make a trick more than 1NT in which case you haven't lost anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red dwarf Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 I have to agree with csdenmark, i wouldn't hesitate a pass. If LHO X and p XX he is asking me to do 1 of 2 things, 1) pass with values or 2) bid lowest 4 card suit here being hearts, this happened a couple of weeks ago at local club and i passed pards XX with 8 or 9 points(cant quite remember) and contract made.As it happens it is the same with X by RHO i pass and pard is forced to XX and then i bid 2H with the hand given. any bid by me is a transfer after X by RHO XX asking pard to bid clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 Welcome to the Bridgebase forum, red dwarf. Good first post. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlPurple Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 Another reason why bidding 2♣ may be good on this hand. If the next player has a good hand (and he probably does) then double would be take-out. But if I pass their doubles would be penalties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts