jumping to game

[AnJoe]

[hv=d=s&v=b&n=skxhkxxxxd10xxxxck&s=saqj109xxhadxcaq10x]133|200|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

North is a much better than average club player who reads everything Mike Lawrence writes and assumes everyone else has also, even without prior discussion.

 

South opens 1 spade, hears a 1 NT forcing response and jumps to 4 spades.

 

North passes, explaining that Lawrence says after a forcing NT opener automatically jumps to 4 with a seven card suit. :unsure: Huh?

 

As South, I contend the bid is just like 1H, 1S response and 4H rebid showing long suit and 20 points. :)

 

So we missed slam.

 

Could I as South have prevented any misunderstanding here by startingn with a 2Club bid? I do have 8 1/2 tricks.

 

Bridge is a crazy game.

 

love

joan

 

love

joan

[the hog]

I really dislike a 4S bid on this hand. Your hand has great potential in C as well as S, and you need to give partner a chance to evaluate his C holdings. After all you could still have a grand on after the 1NT response.

I would have bid 3C. (Not necessarily with the intention of playing in that suit, but to set up a force and a dialogue with your partner.) I would certainly have passed 4S on your bidding.

 

Normally I dislike opening 2C on this sort of hand, but you have a fine hand and only 3 losers. 2C is also fine.

[Stephen Tu]

Your partner is closer to being right than you are.

 

1M then rebidding 4M after a 1/1 is not "20 points", at least not mostly in HCP. Hands strong in high cards like this one are expected to jump shift into a side suit (here 3♣), then rebid the major. Sometimes you are forced to jump into a 3cd fragment or even a doubleton.

 

Jumping to 4M is supposed to show a hand weaker in high cards, more of a gambling maneuver. It's a hand that maybe could have opened 4M, but was afraid of missing slam if partner could have come up with a GF raise or 2/1 bid, a bit too strong to open 4M, qualifying for a 1M opening based on high cards. Jumping to game in a major after a 1/1 is not completely automatic with a 7 cd suit, it depends. Some are more suited to 2M or 3M. It depends on suit quality and presence of side suits/voids which increase playing strength, and overall high card strength. 8cd suits that chose to open 1 would tend to automatically rebid 4M.

 

You might bid 1S ... 4S on the same hand, making the heart ace a small card, for example, hoping for an ace and a club honor from partner.

 

Either way, I don't think it's automatic to get to slam on these cards. You might get there if you agree to play 4♦ by opener as a "self-splinter", showing a great hand with long spades and a stiff diamond, but otherwise it's rather hard.

 

Opening 2c, should be a shade stronger than this.

[Jlall]

1S 1N

3C 3H

3S 4D

 

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

4S is not a good bid, simply because it burns a lot of space.

Just imagine, partner has a 3 card limit raise with 10-12HCP,

than you can basically force to the 5 level all on your own.

 

3C creates a game forcing seq., and if you jump after 3C to 4S

you have basically shown 7-4 and told most features of your hand.

 

After 3H, I would simply bid 4S, i.e.

 

1S - 1NT

3C - 3H

4S -

 

Partner is looking at the two black kings, which will be two tricks for

you, the king of hearts is not a bad card either, but it is not clear, so

his best bid would be to invite slam, if you play constructive raise you

have basically forced to game vs. 4-7 and 3 card support, and responder

is clearly at least 1 1/2 trick stronger than that.

Opener will accept the invite, i.e.

 

.... - 5S

6S

 

A nice natural auction to slam, only card evaluation, I recaall Mike Lawrence

wrote also a book about this topic?

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Tola18]

Could I as South have prevented any misunderstanding here by startingn with a 2Club bid?

Im no expert, either not on 2/1, so I wonder if responder can pass on 2C with say 5cards clubs and a meagre hand... If so, in this way you would miss an cold game.

 

 

Although 2C would be just what the doctor prescibed if you played some sort of Gezelli. 2C in such auctions being a pure relay. They are for example quite common among expert players in Sweden, there called The Witch (=Häxan in Swedish).

Thus I think it is where you did saw such a auction.

 

But Gezelli is not standard in basic 2/1 unless you really agreed on it...

 

 

 

I presume this is why all here said you should jump to 3C.

[P_Marlowe]

<snip>

So we missed slam.

 

Could I as South have prevented any misunderstanding here by startingn with a 2Club bid? I do have 8 1/2 tricks.

<snip>

You can answer the question yourself: How happy are you,

if 1S gets passed out, and do you fear intervention (do you

know, what to do, if the auction comes back at the 3 or 4 level).

 

If you want to be in game, and if you dont fear an intervention

(you have the spades, and you are willing to bid / play 4S without

any help from partner), than go ahaead, open 2C.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[jdonn]

1S 1N

3C 3H

3S 4D

 

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

typ

[ArtK78]

Consider the following hands for partner:

 

Kx

xxxx

xxxxx

Kx

 

or

 

Kx

xxxxx

xxxxx

K

 

1♠ - 1NT

4♠ - ?

 

Certainly, no one would expect responder to bid again. This shows how much of an underbid 4♠ is on the given hand. 6♠ is close to 100% opposite a perfect hand with only two kings. The actual hand is the same as my second example but with the ♥K added. The ♥K is a totally wasted card. It didn't have to be wasted, however. Would South have bid differently if his red suits were Ax --- as opposed to A x? A grand could be close to 100%.

 

As has been stated, the correct rebid (not playing anything fancy) is 3♣, not 4♠.

[peachy]

As South, I contend the bid is just like 1H, 1S response and 4H rebid showing long suit and 20 points.

Agree, that is what it means in standard bidding context = a balanced strong hand (like a 2NT opener with a good six-card major).

The given South hand should rebid 3C, it is more play-strong than what partner expects from a 4S re-bid.

[Jlall]

1S 1N

3C 3H

3S 4D

 

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

typ

It was just for you

[Stephen Tu]

Agree, that is what it means in standard bidding context = a balanced strong hand (like a 2NT opener with a good six-card major)

 

No. A 2nt opener w/ 6 cd major would jump shift also, into a fragment. Some of these might open a strong 2♣. Some slightly twisted people might open 2nt with some 6322s.

 

A 4M rebid is a min range opener, ~11-14(15)HCP, freakish enough distribution+suit qual (7-4, 8+) to create enough playing strength to make a 4M gamble worthwhile opposite partner's random 6-10 count.

[Cascade]

It seems completely wrong to me to jump shift into a fragment. When you take up all of that bidding space you should be showing something specific. How partner is ever meant to do anything intelligent in the limited space when your jump shift could be a fragment with a six or seven (or longer) card major or it could be a five-five game force I do not know.

[Stephen Tu]

Well, what's the alternative? In the absence of Gazzilli or a strong club framework or Acol strong 2s, you are somewhat forced into it. Responder can make a neutral waiting bid, opener can clarify by rebidding major or rebidding minor with a true 5-5.

 

You have more room than jumping to game ...

 

These aren't great auctions but in std am. your options are limited.

[kenrexford]

I really like the practical call of 1♠-1NT-4♦ as a splinter. On this actual hand, this gives North a no-brainer.

[jdonn]

I really like the practical call of 1♠-1NT-4♦ as a splinter.  On this actual hand, this gives North a no-brainer.

I don't like it, you're too good and you also want partner to focus on his club holding. You have slam without the king of hearts in dummy. Really I think it's good enough to open 2♣ but the reason I don't is I think there is too much to gain by increasing the likelihood of showing clubs on the way.

[aguahombre]

I really like the practical call of 1♠-1NT-4♦ as a splinter.  On this actual hand, this gives North a no-brainer.

I don't like it, you're too good and you also want partner to focus on his club holding. You have slam without the king of hearts in dummy. Really I think it's good enough to open 2♣ but the reason I don't is I think there is too much to gain by increasing the likelihood of showing clubs on the way.

And if I play it in 1S, the opponents will be in the dark about my clubs. but I still open 1S. :lol: