Is this your problem?

[paulg]

[hv=d=n&v=e&s=st9xxxhxdxxxcqjxx]133|100|Scoring: IMP

1♣ (1♥) Pass (4♥)

Dbl (Pass) ?[/hv]

You are at favourable vulnerability at teams.

 

Is partner's double an invitation to bid or demanding a pass?

[gnasher]

It's an invitation to bid. I choose 4♠.

[mikeh]

it is not a penalty double: certainly, he thinks that he can take 4 plus tricks, but not based on trumps.. and opposite most of the hands he will have, our probable double fit means not only that he may have over-estimated his defence, but also that we may well score very nicely in 4♠

[cherdanno]

4♠ wtp. Wtp in the sense that it would not have occurred to me that anyone plays this double as anything but "takeout (willing to defend in case partner is balanced)".

[655321]

In answer to the thread title, no, this is Someone Else's Problem.

I bid 1♠ on the previous round. With a singleton heart, 5 spades, and a big fit for partner I don't consider it close.

[Jlall]

Agree with obv 1S and obv 4S.

[mtvesuvius]

No, I did not come up with this problem.

 

Yes, this is a wtp 4♠.

[Codo]

agree with obv. pass and 4♠.

[Cascade]

takeout

[OleBerg]

1♠ at my first chance.

 

Now it depends on agreements. With an unknown partner of more than intermidiate status, I would expect it to be take-out, making 4♠ obvious.

[gnasher]

If this is a 1♠ bid on the first round (and I'm not saying it isn't), what does pass followed by 4♠ look like?

[OleBerg]

If this is a 1♠ bid on the first round (and I'm not saying it isn't), what does pass followed by 4♠ look like?

Maybe:

 

♠ T9xxx

♥ xxx

♦ DBxx

♣ x

[jdonn]

If this is a 1♠ bid on the first round (and I'm not saying it isn't), what does pass followed by 4♠ look like?

For me DNE. If someone did it to me, I'd play them for something like this, but 5-5.

[ArtK78]

Agree with Pass and then 4♠.

 

I do not understand making a free bid on this hand over 1♥. But I see this all the time in these Fora.

[jdonn]

Agree with Pass and then 4♠.

 

I do not understand making a free bid on this hand over 1♥. But I see this all the time in these Fora.

Welcome to 2009. For that matter, welcome to 1999.

[OleBerg]

Agree with Pass and then 4♠.

 

I do not understand making a free bid on this hand over 1♥.  But I see this all the time in these Fora.

In the preface to his book "To bid or not to bid" Larry Cohen tells how he asked Bob Hamman to comment on the manuscript. Hamman simply scratched out "or not to bid".

 

But seriously; the key to understand 1♠, is to consider how unlikely it is to get hurt, and how likely it is to gain a profit.

If partner has a balanced hand, you will seldom get into trouble (Unless partner partner can be 15-17 bal. in which case you need some agreements to slow him down), and if partner has an unbalanced hand with 5+ clubs, your playing strength surely warrants competing, often even to the 3-level.

[gnasher]

If this is a 1♠ bid on the first round (and I'm not saying it isn't), what does pass followed by 4♠ look like?

For me DNE. If someone did it to me, I'd play them for something like this, but 5-5.

Sorry, I meant what sort of hand would pass 1♥, then bid 4♠ in response to partner's double of 4♥?

[jdonn]

Actually I understood your question but I didn't see the double at the time I answered. I might pass over 1♥ with Qxxxx xxx xxx xx and then bid 4♠.

[MFA]

Partner's double of 4♥ is for take-out. So this is a non-problem.

[dake50]

Did I have a fit-bid 2S over 1H? This is weak for that action and need to slow partner from slamming but may find double fit.

[Codo]

Agree with Pass and then 4♠.

 

I do not understand making a free bid on this hand over 1♥.  But I see this all the time in these Fora.

 

 

But seriously; the key to understand 1♠, is to consider how unlikely it is to get hurt, and how likely it is to gain a profit.

If partner has a balanced hand, you will seldom get into trouble (Unless partner partner can be 15-17 bal. in which case you need some agreements to slow him down), and if partner has an unbalanced hand with 5+ clubs, your playing strength surely warrants competing, often even to the 3-level.

You are oversimplyfing.

 

When you bid one spade with this hand and with a hand with full values, you may get hurt badly.

Not when you have a fit, but when you do not have one at once.

 

Let the bidding be:

1♣ (1♥) 1♠ (4♥)

 

And partner has a good hand with about 2 or 3 tricks against heart but no spade fit and no self sufficent club suit.

 

WHat shall he do? Double? Pass?

 

Opposite the Arts and mes of this world, he can easily double because he knows that 1 ♠ promies at least some values.

 

I do not want to compare the pros and cons of the new and the ancient approach, but up to now I see these bids with realy weak hands more in the fora and in junior bridge then in senior competions.

[gnasher]

But seriously; the key to understand 1♠, is to consider how unlikely it is to get hurt, and how likely it is to gain a profit.

If partner has a balanced hand, you will seldom get into trouble

If partner has 12-14 balanced you'll probably be OK. If, on the other hand, he has 18-19 balanced, it will go

  1♣ 1♥ 1♠ pass

  2NT

The only good thing about this sequence is that we're not vulnerable.

[cherdanno]

But seriously; the key to understand 1♠, is to consider how unlikely it is to get hurt, and how likely it is to gain a profit.

If partner has a balanced hand, you will seldom get into trouble

If partner has 12-14 balanced you'll probably be OK. If, on the other hand, he has 18-19 balanced, it will go

  1♣ 1♥ 1♠ pass

  2NT

The only good thing about this sequence is that we're not vulnerable.

I would say this counts as "seldom". Seldom compared to how often we may gain competitively when partner is unbalanced. (If we play 3♣ over 2N as non-forcing, I don't even see the problem.)

[gnasher]

I would say this counts as "seldom". Seldom compared to how often we may gain competitively when partner is unbalanced.

I thought we were talking about the risk of getting into trouble given that partner is balanced? Obviously if you include the unbalanced hands the overall probability of this situation is reduced, though it's hard to estimate the relative probabilities.

(If we play 3♣ over 2N as non-forcing, I don't even see the problem.)

In how many partnership do you play 3♣ as non-forcing?

 

I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't bid 1♠ - I'd bid it - but I don't think we should dismiss the disadvantages.

[quiddity]

How far would you take this bid? Last night I held T87xxx xx xx Q9x on the same auction and tried 1S. It was not a success (partner had the 18-19 1444 hand).

 

Edited: sorry, 1435. After she jumped to 2nt there wasn't much to be done (except count myself lucky she didn't try 3nt).