Hanoi5 Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 They're Vulnerable, you're not. It's a teams match. You open 1NT (14+-17) on: ♠A9♥KT87♦AJxx♣ATx And partner bids 2♠, which is stayman for the minors (he has the minors, not the Majors and he's looking for slam as he also has available 3♥/3♠ which shows at least 9 cards in the minors, singleton or void in the major bid and usually 3 cards in the other with enough HCP's for game, but only game). You bid 3♦ which shows 4 or 5 diamonds and not 4 clubs and partner bids 5♦, what would you bid? 1NT 2♠*3♦ 5♦??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 You pass. You have all this system and partner didn't investigate for slam at all. You have no business bidding it, despite it being likely that partner has misbid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlall Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 no reason to overrule partner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 You made a limited opening bid and partner asked you a question. You answered the question and partner bid game. Pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bid_em_up Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 ........and he's looking for slam as he also has available ....... Pass. The 5D call should cancel any slam interest his previous actions might have shown. Additionally, I find it difficult to concieve a hand where he was looking for slam and yet he could not find any cuebid below 5D. (I suppose one might exist, but it escapes me at the moment). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoi5 Posted July 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 So it's OK to use a conventional bid or agreement for slam with a hand that has no slam interest? What hand can partner have that will comply with the at least 14 HCP's agreed upon for this 2♠ bid and no slam is available? Was partner bluffing/misusing the convention and now we pass for he must have made the perfect bid? I'd really like to know the reasoning behind the Pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Hanoi, the reason for passing 5d has been well explained by the others. This is one of those default aggreement things. If partner starts a sequence, when backs down from it, even though you know something is wrong --let it go. Maybe he overvalued his hand, then woke up. Maybe he forgot the strength he had shown, then woke up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 the at least 14 HCP's agreed upon for this 2♠ bid lol? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachy Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 So it's OK to use a conventional bid or agreement for slam with a hand that has no slam interest? What hand can partner have that will comply with the at least 14 HCP's agreed upon for this 2♠ bid and no slam is available? Was partner bluffing/misusing the convention and now we pass for he must have made the perfect bid? I'd really like to know the reasoning behind the Pass. The reasoning behind the Pass is that partner is in charge. He said 5D. He did not invite to slam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 They're Vulnerable, you're not. It's a teams match. You open 1NT (14+-17) on: ♠A9♥KT87♦AJxx♣ATx And partner bids 2♠, which is stayman for the minors (he has the minors, not the Majors and he's looking for slam as he also has available 3♥/3♠ which shows at least 9 cards in the minors, singleton or void in the major bid and usually 3 cards in the other with enough HCP's for game, but only game). You bid 3♦ which shows 4 or 5 diamonds and not 4 clubs and partner bids 5♦, what would you bid? 1NT 2♠*3♦ 5♦??? What would partner bid with 55 in the minors and game going values? It sounds to me like you and your partner disagreed about the slam invitational nature of 2♠ and it would be better to clear up with him whether this sequence is a slam try or not (and how it differs from the same sequence ending in 4♦ instead of 5♦) rather than trying to be right about it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 I think the problem stems from your statement of your methods... and I expect that the problem is that your partner had a different, and more logical, view of your agreements. The fact that 3M over 1N shows some 5431, minor 2 suiter with no slam interest does not imply that one should use 2♠ only with slam interest! What if he has some 6=5 hand? What would 3minor be by him had you bid 2N over 2♠? And so on. Are you unable, systemically, to find your best minor suit when he is 65 or 66? It sounds like it, according to your explanation. As it is, you have an awesome hand, and you would absolutely bid slam IF he promised slam invitational values... but the logic of your methods (but not of your understanding of them) suggests otherwise.... clearly one of you is mistaken... if he does have slam interest he has royally screwed up by making the impossible jump. If he has bid correctly, maybe he is gambling on game making, because his choices were pass or bid game... anything in between being slammish. As it is: pass and after the session calmly discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlall Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 I will admit I would be tempted with Axx Axxx Axxx Ax. OK I'd even do it then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoi5 Posted July 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 3♥/3♠ shows 9 or more cards in the minors. It could be even 6-3. Partner is supposed to bid 3NT with double stopper in the minor with the singleton, 4 of the other Major if he had 4 good cards or 5 and get to a game in a minor or just 4 of a minor trying to look for the fit. This was my partner's hand: ♠x♥QJx♦Kxxx♣Kxxxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlall Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 3♥/3♠ shows 9 or more cards in the minors. It could be even 6-3. Partner is supposed to bid 3NT with double stopper in the minor with the singleton, 4 of the other Major if he had 4 good cards or 5 and get to a game in a minor or just 4 of a minor trying to look for the fit. This was my partner's hand: ♠x♥QJx♦Kxxx♣Kxxxx Good hand to play that 3S shows.... oh wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 If this was definitely a slam try then raise. If this was a hole in your system where you can't bid minor hands without slam interest then pass. Well pass next time. If partner misbid as it seems he did then it is impossible to decide at the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 3♥/3♠ shows 9 or more cards in the minors. It could be even 6-3. Partner is supposed to bid 3NT with double stopper in the minor with the singleton, 4 of the other Major if he had 4 good cards or 5 and get to a game in a minor or just 4 of a minor trying to look for the fit. This was my partner's hand: ♠x♥QJx♦Kxxx♣Kxxxx So, 6D-1 pushed with 3N-1? This really is a non-problem as posed since any inference from responder not bidding 3♠ to show this hand is obviously invalid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dake50 Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Partner jumped to 5D knowing 6D needed the perfect max so no blab take game. BUT I have the perfect max 6D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjbrr Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Agree with "no blab take game". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoi5 Posted July 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 What does 'no blab take game' mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 I'm surprised at all the comments saying, essentially, that 5♦ doesn't exist. Do we really have so much space that we can afford to just not use this sequence at all? Obviously 5♦ should be something fairly specific, and should imply that there's no need to investigate major-suit controls. Applying fast-arrival principles, I would expect something like x x KQxxx QJ10xxx, which makes a slam if everything in opener's hand is working, but not otherwise. I'm even more puzzled by the comments that imply that 5♦ does exist, but it cancels the slam-try message. If 3♦ showed a slam try, responder has a slam try. You can't have slam interest on the first round of the bidding, hear some good news, and then not have slam interest any more. This assumes, of course, that the original poster's statement that "he's looking for slam" was an agreement rather than merely an opinion. It appears that this assumption wouldn't apply to this partnership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 Partner bid 2♠, defined as a slam try, and then 5♦. Presumably he had other tools available, but elected to not use them. Knowing those tools would allow us to decipher what 5♦ shows. Obviously, it seems somewhat important to know what 5♦ shows when deciding whether to bid 6♦ or not, but apparently that is only relevant to a few of us. Everyone else uses general principles, whatever that means. If I had to guess what makes sense, I would assume the very strange meaning that I would assign to this sequence. 5♣ as a WEAK slam try with short hearts, 5♦ as a WEAK slam try with short spades. "WEAK" meaning not two with the Queen, such that partner is missing one of the key cards we want for slam. "WEAK" probably also means something else bad, whatever that is. Maybe only four trumps, maybe not great in the other minor. Whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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