Weakest available bid

[vuroth]

Something I think maybe I've been getting wrong....

 

Case 1:

 

1♦ P 1♥ X

?

 

To me, it's clear that a pass here would show a minimum opener, with no fit for partner. It's your first chance to limit your hand, and even with a decent spade or club suit, I would think it makes sense to pass if you're a minimum opener.

 

Case 2:

 

2/1

 

1♥ P 2♣ X

?

 

How is this different in a GF auction?

 

Case 3:

 

2/1

 

1♥ P 2♣ 4♠

?

 

Ok, now we're in a GF and probably a forcing pass situation. But what about:

 

Case 4:

2/1

 

1♥ P 2♣ P

2♥ P 3♥ P

3♠ X ?

 

Still forcing pass? Which is weaker? 4♥ or pass?

 

Once upon a time, I would have assumed that pass was the weakest bid in all 4 cases. I still think it is in 1 and 2, but not 3, and I have doubts about 4.

 

V

[quiddity]

Another B/I perspective (so take it with a grain of salt) :-)

 

Case 1: If I had a minimum balanced opener with no fit, I would pass. If I had a fit for partner or some extra shape, I'd try to get this across even though my hand may be minimum just in case the hand becomes competitive. I tend to ignore the double and just make the normal rebid unless my hand is particularly featureless.

 

Case 2: Again, with nothing special to say I would pass. I think the meaning of subsequent doubles from our side is a bit different due to the fact that we're in a forcing auction. However, I don't think that pass shows "weakness" here. You can pass with quite a good hand if you don't have an obvious rebid (depending on your agreements for redouble).

 

I think Case 4 is completely different. Here you are investigating a heart slam and the opponents have doubled your spade cuebid. This gives you an extra couple of bids (pass and redouble) that you can use to distinguish between first and second-round control. Usually responder's redouble will show first-round control, and responder can pass to find out if opener has first round control. Pass is definitely stronger than 4H though, since it shows interest in the nature of opener's control.

[mikeh]

Case 1: do you play support redoubles? Probably not, in a B/I game, and this gadget is not universal amongst A/E. But you can see how it is relevant, since pass would tend to deny 3+ support.

 

It is my opinion that pass should tend, strongly, to show a balanced minimum with 3 card support.. indeed, I like this even playing support redoubles.. the redouble shows a sound opener with 3 card support... pass shows the worst kind of hand for competing, yet allows responder to push with 5+ suit and approprite values.

 

All other minimums should bid exactly as if rho had passed.

 

Why?

 

Because this may be our hand... rho's double doesn't fundamentally change that. And if we pass, LHO is bidding, and partner, with no knowledge of our shape (other than that we don't hold 4 card support), may be handcuffed... and then we have to balance, often a level higher and with no assured fit.

 

No... get our bid out of the way. It may preempt LHO and, more importantly, it will enhance partner's ability to compete or to invite/drive to game, etc.

 

This idea of passing with minimums is similar to the old-fashioned idea that after we open and LHO doubles, a 'free bid' by responder showed extras... I don't know any experts who play that way nowadays... they all (mostly) ignore the double in terms of what is needed for a bid.

 

Case 2: I think that since we are in a gf auction, pass should merely announce some interest in defending a doubled contract... it doesn't say anything about being able to make 2♣ (especially opposite ken rexford :D), but by not saying anything else, it effectively forces LHO to bid a suit, and allows partner to suggest defending anytime he has as much as Hxx in that suit . So it is more a shape bid than a strength bid.

 

Case 3 is self-explanatory

 

Case 4: they have doubled a cue bid.. this can be a recurrent theme in many auctions. Consider [1♥] 1♠ [P] 2♥ [x] ?

 

I think it is standard to play that bidding 2♠ here is the weakest move, whether the cue promised support or not.. passing would, in contrast, show more than a minimum, but with no clear call.

 

In the actual Case 4, matters are complicated by the fact that most players would have a special meaning for redouble... for example, for me it would promise a control in the suit (most commonly, on the posted auction, a singleton). Bidding, say 4♣, would be a cue in clubs while denying a control in spades... note that these meanings have nothing at all to do with overall hand strength. Pass, to me, would deny a spade control and first round club control..... while I usually bid controls up the line, whether 1st or 2nd, on this auction, by passing I allow partner an easy opportunity to confirm the nature of his control or to show me the club A on the way. Note how this type of double, of a cue bid, often gives the other side an extra call or two... good players learn to avoid such doubles of cue bids... I mean, in the posted auction, the doubler was going to be on lead against a heart contract so why did he double?

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

Most likely the question is not formulated very well, limiting your

hand in terms of HCP makes sense, but it is also important to get

your shape across as fast as possible, the shape information is a

lot more important than the HCP information.

 

#1 Pass should show a weak NT hand, best would also be that it

denies reasonable heart support, if you play XX as supp, than it

would basically show 4432, if you have good spades dont hesitate

to bid them.

 

#2 Pass should show a weak NT as well, it also suggests, that the

partnership may be better of going for blood.

 

#3 Pass denies a clear direction, partner is asked to decide, if the

partnership is better of defending, most of the time you will have

a bal. hand with xx or xxx in their suit.

 

#4 The X of 3S is usually played as a lead director, if I remember it

correct Pass denies a 1st round control, XX showes a first round control,

dont ask me what bidding on means.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe