Your choice of actions

[se12sam]

[hv=d=e&v=b&s=sakjxhatdxcakjxxx]133|100|Scoring: XIMP

East as dealer begins with 1♦ -- which promises at least 4 cards. The bidding goes:

East - South - West - North

1♦   -  ??? -   pass - 1♠*

pass - ???

 

Would appreciate your comments as well.

Notes:

1. Assume you don't know partner will bid 1♠ when you take your first action.

2. If you bid 2♣ first, you cannot be sure partner will bid.[/hv]

[gwnn]

double then 4D. I need the ♣Q and 5 spades for a good slam.

[mich-b]

1st round : Double - no other choice.

2nd round : The choice is between 2♦ and 4♦. 4♦ is more informative (shows at once the ♠ support, ♦ shortage and slam interest) , but I feel my hand is too powerful , and he will often sign off after 4♦ when slam is makeable.

So I think I will try to find out more , by going slowly with 2♦.

[Codo]

Double is clear cut.

 

Now the choices are 2 ♦ 3 ♣ and 4♦

I do not like 4♦ because we may not find the right strain when partner with a 3244 or 3253 decided to bid his bertter major.

3 ♣ and later show the spade support looks nice but maybe this is not as easy as it seems.

 

So 2♦, intending to raise spades later.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

#1 X, what ever your upper limit for a simple overcall is, this hand is too strong,

and you wont have a troube bidding your suit at the level.

#2 4D as a splinter looks reasonable, although I would most likely go with 4S,

since I doubt, we will be able to get to slam in a confident manner.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[mich-b]

Double is clear cut.

 

Now the choices are 2 ♦ 3 ♣ and 4♦

I  do not like  4♦ because we may not find the right strain when partner with a 3244 or 3253 decided to bid his bertter major.

3 ♣ and later show  the spade support looks nice but maybe this is not as easy as it seems.

 

So 2♦, intending to raise spades later.

I thought it is standard that a 3♣ rebid by the doubler is very strong (like an Acol 2 opening) but non forcing. To force the doubler needs to cuebid , than bid a new suit.

[Codo]

I am sure that double and new suit is very strong, so I thought that double and jump to a new suit is surely stronger then an ACOL 2.

 

I have no idea whether is allready a GF in theory, maybe it is passable with a non fitting yarb., but with Qxxx,xxx,xxx,Qxx partner will not pass.....

[se12sam]

[hv=d=e&v=b&n=s9xxxhjxxdatxxcqx&s=sakjxhatdxcakjxxx]133|200|Scoring: XIMP

East as dealer began with 1♦. The bidding at our table went:

East - South - West - North

1♦  -  Dbl -  pass - 1♠

pass - 4♦ -  pass -  4♠

All pass

 

East held ALL the missing HCP and it is possible to make a grand on a squeeze[/hv]

When the deal was played, I held the North hand. At the table partner blamed me for not bidding on (his rationale: I was a maximum for the 1♠ bid, which could be on 0 HCP hands). However, I thought my bid was normal (my rationale: most of my HCP -- ♦A -- is wasted opposite a singleton/void).

 

Please feel free to comment / assign blame for not reaching the 6-level in bidding.

[effervesce]

Totally north's fault. North has two tricks for partner, who has forced to game opposite a possible 0 count. Aces are almost never a waste, and you should not consider an ace opposite a singleton to be wasted values, especially after partner has shown slam interest. The ace of diamonds is a great card to have given the splinter.

 

When looking for slam, it's about covering partner's losing tricks. The ace of diamonds covers any possible diamond loser partner has, and the club Q will solidify partner's holding in that suit.

[Codo]

I think that your partner was right, but I understand your viewpoint too.

This is why I think that 4 ♦ is no good bid. With your hand you must bid 5 ♦ to show your main value, hardly something you would like to do. But you have to.

 

After 2 ♦ it had been much easier for you to show your maximum at a lower level.

[Fluffy]

for 4♦ I'd rather have a 5th spade, partner is yet to confirm he has 4. 3♣ then 4♠ looks bst to find best game at least. Agree that north is too strong for 4 spades, 5 diamonds sounds right, 4th spade is a nice extra he probably didn't consider.

[655321]

Agree that North is worth a move such as 5♦, disagree that he should even for a moment consider his 4 spades to the 9 to be a 'nice extra'.

[Cascade]

♦A could be wasted but a singleton is much more likely than a void.

 

Usually with a splinter with nothing (surely) wasted I think we should be prepared to venture to the five-level. This is a little different since 1♠ is such a wide range. However we do have extra values.

 

Doubler has 2♦ as a general force so maybe it is possible to play 3♦ as a normal splinter and 4♦ as a void on this auction.

[benlessard]

X and 3C forcing

[Cascade]

X and 3C forcing

I thought the standard for 3♣ was something like 19 HCP but not forcing.

[Fluffy]

X and 3C forcing

I thought the standard for 3♣ was something like 19 HCP but not forcing.

what do you think 2♣ shows?

[jdonn]

Doubling then jumping in a suit is very strong but not forcing. I think it would be perfect on this hand if partner had responded 1♥ instead of 1♠. After 1♠ we are obviously going to game.

[Cascade]

X and 3C forcing

I thought the standard for 3♣ was something like 19 HCP but not forcing.

what do you think 2♣ shows?

A bit less than 3♣.

[the hog]

I would X and then bid 4C, which in my system shows a hand of this sort. Surprised at no other 4C bids.

Second choice would be a x followed by a 4D bid.

[gnasher]

There's a hand in the September 2007 Bridge World where most of the panel bid

  1♣ dbl pass 1♠

  pass 3♥

intending it as non-forcing, so it's probably unwise to bid 3♣ unless you're sure partner is going to interpret it correctly.

 

What shape can partner be to have only three spades? With a very weak 3343 or 3253 he should bid 2♣, because that's less likely to get raised to the four level. I suppose he could have something like Qxx xxx xxxxx xx, but on that hand the best game is 4♠ anyway.

 

I could live with being in slam opposite ♠Qxxx and nothing else, so I don't think it's sufficient to splinter and then give up. I'd start with 2♦ and see if partner shows any sign of life.

 

After someone doubles and then cue-bids, there's a good case for playing the first step in reply as an artificial negative. Without that agreement, I think that rebidding 2♠ just shows a bad hand and doesn't promise any more spades than before. I'd splinter over that, showing a massive hand that's still interested in slam even opposite a pile of junk. That doesn't emphasise the importance of ♣Q, bu it's hard to get spades agreed and show clubs.

 

With advancer's actual hand in the actual auction, clearly he should move. An ace opposite shortage isn't as valuable as an ace opposite length, but it's still useful for keeping control, as an entry, and as a trick.

Edited July 8, 2009 by gnasher

[Codo]

What shape can partner be to have only three spades? With a very weak 3343 or 3253 he should bid 2♣, because that's less likely to get raised to the four level.

I guess that this advice is not mainstream, is it?

 

Normally anybody and his grandma advocates to bid the major because it is much more likely to have a 4-3 fit there and you are one level lower.

 

And I do not see the upsides of your approach anyway. Okay in the stoneage, there had been the possibility that partner will raise you to 4 in your major. But is this a real threat nowadays? I doubt so. If you wish to find out whether partner has 3 or 4 spades, you may bid 2 ♦ and take it from there.

[Fluffy]

X and 3C forcing

I thought the standard for 3♣ was something like 19 HCP but not forcing.

what do you think 2♣ shows?

A bit less than 3♣.

2 clubs then double is around 17 for me, there is no big place for something in between <_<

[gnasher]

I guess that this advice is not mainstream, is it?

I thought it was. Regarding a similar problem, holding a 3433 4-count after (1♥) dbl, Lawrence wrote, "There is logic for bidding 1♠ and logic for bidding 2♣. If you bid 1♠, keeping the bidding low, your partner will be pleased to hear you have spades and may raise. If you bid 2♣, your partner may not raise, but being at the two level may be bad for you. Take your choice."

 

That was written in 1994. My impression is that since then the arguments for 2♣ have won, but maybe I'm wrong, or maybe this is a regional difference.

 

And I do not see the upsides of your approach anyway. Okay in the stoneage, there had been the possibility that partner will raise you to 4 in your major. But is this a real threat nowadays? I doubt so. If you wish to find out whether partner has 3 or 4 spades, you may bid 2 ♦ and take it from there.

So you respond 1♠ on your 3253 2-count and partner bids 2♦. How do you say that you have only three spades?

[Codo]

Hi Andy,

 

it depends. In your method I can try 2 HEart, in my less scientific approach I can try 2 Spade. This does not deny a 4. spade, however if I have one, I have a hand close to a yarb. And I doubt that say xxxx,xx,xxxx,xxx is much stronger then Qxx, xx,xxxxx,xxx.

 

With a little more, I can try 2 NT to show that I have just 3 spades but maybe a late diamond stop, f.e. Kxx,xxx,JTxx,xxx.

 

And I doubt that you will be better placed after:

 

(1♦) X (pass) 2♣

(pass) 2 ♦ (pass)....

 

Does 2 spade sound like a 3253 hand to you? Mabe it does, but I would not try it without prior discussion.

[gnasher]

Let's go back to what you said a couple of posts ago, [after a 1♠ advance] "If you wish to find out whether partner has 3 or 4 spades, you may bid 2♦ and take it from there."

 

So, over 2♦, your advancer might bid 2♠, which could be 3, 4 or perhaps 5 spades. Or, he might bid 2NT, which shows slightly more strength, but still doesn't say whether he has 3 or 4 spades. You haven't got very far, have you?

 

(1♦) X (pass) 2♣

(pass) 2 ♦ (pass)....

Does 2 spade sound like a 3253 hand to you

No, it sounds like a 3xx4 shape with a spade honour. That may or may be a small misdescription or a big one, but at least it isn't going to get raised to the four level. My advancer can also rebid his three-card club suit, without promising more than four. That might be a 4-3 or 3-3 fit, but it has the advantage of not being at the game level.

 

Furthermore, my advancer will face a 2♦ cue bid less often than yours. On many of the hands where your doubler bids 2♦, trying to find out if there's a spade fit, my doubler will bid 2NT.