ONEferBRID Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Yes who would ever want to be in a vulnerable game that requires they lead opener's suit and a finesse is off to go down! hmmm, let's see.... someone who leads the Cl K from K Q J ..... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benlessard Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 in a weak NT setup 3S should be played as almost forcing (17+bal, 16-5431 or more shape). So north has a clear 4S. Its a cliche but it doesnt pay to stop at 3M in unconsted auction at imps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bid_em_up Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 <sarcasm on> Yes who would ever want to be in a vulnerable game that requires they lead opener's suit and a finesse is off to go down! <sarcasm off>hmmm, let's see.... someone who leads the Cl K from K Q J ..... ?You are completely missing the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONEferBRID Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 [hv=d=s&v=b&n=sjt764hjt74dk2ct7&s=saq95ha9dqj5ca832]133|200|Scoring: IMP1♣ 1♠3♠ Pass[/hv] Weak No Trump system. I'm missing the point ? Even Cascade ( in his post # 3 ) says the 3S is limited to 17.... "with 18" they "use something else". What makes more sense on this near perfect fit is for Opener to rebid 4Swith his 18 ( counting the doubleton distribution and the 3 bullets. He has a stronger hand than a "mere" 3S-jump. With the given auction, even the "law" says to stop with Responder's 5 hcp ( containing 2 J's ) and 2 doubletons... oh, and lest I forget, there are THREE TENS ! How many 17 hcp hands can you construct with 4 card support that don't have chance in hades to make 10 tricks. Going to 4S ( for this Responder) is a losing proposition in the long run. On the other hand, it is IMPS... no "gametry" or invite necessary,Opener should just bid "game" himself... and then "try" to make it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bid_em_up Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 How many 17 hcp hands can you construct with 4 card support that don't have chance in hades to make 10 tricks. Going to 4S ( for this Responder) is a losing proposition in the long run.No, it is not. For every hand you can give where 4S will go down, I can give one where it will make. Do the IMP math. I assure you, if your opponents consistently bid game on these cards and you consistently do not, you are going to lose the majority of the time. Was the trump K onsides ?If it were offside, how do you make 10 tricks with an opening Cl lead?. hmmm, let's see.... someone who leads the Cl K from K Q J ..... ?Both of these statements appear to be arguing that you do not belong in game here simply on the basis that the game might be beaten. This is different from claiming North should pass opposite a hand that is limited to 17 hcp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 in a weak NT setup 3S should be played as almost forcing (17+bal, 16-5431 or more shape). So north has a clear 4S. It never hurts to read the entire thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Yes who would ever want to be in a vulnerable game that requires they lead opener's suit and a finesse is off to go down! hmmm, let's see.... someone who leads the Cl K from K Q J ..... ? LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 I really wonder, why we still talk about this hand. Justin in his wisdom said, that north should accept the invitation with every hand with 5 spades. This should settle the issue. If you are not confessed: Change the 5. trump to the ace of diamond or the king of clubs.Noone would pass 3 ♠ then. And the game is not better then with the actual hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted July 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 I really wonder, why we still talk about this hand. Justin in his wisdom said, that north should accept the invitation with every hand with 5 spades. This should settle the issue. If you are not confessed: Change the 5. trump to the ace of diamond or the king of clubs.Noone would pass 3 ♠ then. And the game is not better then with the actual hand. I like the reasoning (not the bit about Justin's wisdom but the bit about changing the trump for an ace or king. I have used that in reverse in the past on occasions - "I would rather have an extra trump than an ace" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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