Apollo81 Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 all white, mps ♠x♥Qx♦QJTxx♣Qxxxx p (p) 1♥ (2♠)? If not, why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbforster Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 depending on the auction, but i'd say yes. 1♥-(1♠)-X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegill Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 Guess he forgot to put the auction in there... p p 1♥ 2♠ ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 I do not like a negative double over 1♥-(2♠). I would expect some defensive values, even from a passed hand. I don't really want to invite opener to convert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted June 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 Guess he forgot to put the auction in there... p p 1♥ 2♠ ? Yes, this is the auction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfay Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 Automatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 Yes. Pard will have a tough time balancing and they have at least an eight card spade fit so I don't want to defend 2♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoi5 Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 I said no, but maybe my low values are so well placed (the ♥Q may be very important). I'm not quite sure though, couldn't my partner pass with good spades and expecting some 11 HCP's in my hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 I prefer to pass without A nor K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtvesuvius Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 I'll double this, sorry partner :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlall Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 Too much upside to not double. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 No, too weak. Always ask yourself, how you feel, if partner passes your double out,and dont come with "take out doubles are meant to be taken out". Also ask yourself, how you will feel, if partner bids 3NT. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkDean Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 I would pass. Not enough defense. Either LHO is about to bid more spades, or partner is likely to want to defend. All white MPs does make it tempting though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdanno Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 all white mps? SURE!What was the hand again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryallen Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 I can see so many ways of getting into trouble if you bid anything but pass. I can't see any real problems of missing anything vital should you pass. Partner will not let this lie unless deservedly, no brainer for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdanno Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 Partner will not let this lie unless deservedly, no brainer for me! Huh? Partner will pass with any balanced hand with 3 spades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryallen Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 I can see so many ways of getting into trouble if you bid anything but pass. I can't see any real problems of missing anything vital should you pass. Partner will not let this lie unless deservedly, no brainer for me! Huh? Partner will pass with any balanced hand with 3 spades. Just exactly what will you be missing out on that requires your strategic 7 points? I can easily see you missing a part score, but is it really worth it for the risk involved? Then you have the added problem of partner believing you have more values then what you hold, getting in deeper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted June 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 I have mixed feelings on the hand, which I think are reflected in the current 17-12 vote count. On the one hand, you have offense consistent with a negative double at this level. We can likely make 3 of a minor, and it's unlikely we can defeat 2s. Defending 2s will likely be below average, particularly in a weaker field. We might even have a game. However, several bad things can happen if we double. Partner could leave it in, or partner could double 3s when they compete to it and put us to a guess, which we may get wrong. When we can make 3 of a minor, the opponents can often make 3s and will bid it, so how much are we really accomplishing by doubling? I think if I held this hand at the table, I would double, hoping that something good happens (such as we get to play 3 of something, or the opps bid 3 over 3 and go down). However I would think I was overbidding, and I'd be concerned that we will end up defending a doubled making contract later on. For those curious, this didn't come from a real life deal, it came up in a discussion about what constitutes a typical negative double in this auction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdanno Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 I can see so many ways of getting into trouble if you bid anything but pass. I can't see any real problems of missing anything vital should you pass. Partner will not let this lie unless deservedly, no brainer for me! Huh? Partner will pass with any balanced hand with 3 spades. Just exactly what will you be missing out on that requires your strategic 7 points? I can easily see you missing a part score, but is it really worth it for the risk involved? Then you have the added problem of partner believing you have more values then what you hold, getting in deeper? Did you notice the scoring is matchpoints, and the vulnerability is noone vulnerable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 I can see so many ways of getting into trouble if you bid anything but pass. I can't see any real problems of missing anything vital should you pass. Partner will not let this lie unless deservedly, no brainer for me!partner WILL let this lie. He has some spades if it floats back to him. systemic 2nt if the 2S bid did not occur, showing weak response with lots of minor suit cards. maybe 2NT should still show this hand ---frequency of having something like this vs having a natural 2NT call as a passed hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryallen Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 I can see so many ways of getting into trouble if you bid anything but pass. I can't see any real problems of missing anything vital should you pass. Partner will not let this lie unless deservedly, no brainer for me!partner WILL let this lie. He has some spades if it floats back to him. systemic 2nt if the 2S bid did not occur, showing weak response with lots of minor suit cards. maybe 2NT should still show this hand ---frequency of having something like this vs having a natural 2NT call as a passed hand. I believe strongly in getting the opponents to a level they are not comfortable with, giving the defence something meaningful to go after. If double in your system catered for this point range and lack of defensive tricks, I would view this double as an excellent choice and not bat an eyelid in forwarding. There is a certain hand type from partner which you can see giving the possibility of a very good result with little risk. There are several other hand types where I feel we have the possibility of getting into a lot of trouble, if not immediately, then subsequently. Even with the certain types of hand which I believe can work well for us, there is still a good chance 3♠ will work for the opponents and the subsequent problems this gives partner. Maybe what I should of said, is if double in this position will not create the possible problems I have outlined, I would use this bid in an instance. Then you would look at what other situations the partnership may miss out on because of the definition of this double? Maybe I have been overly pessimistic in viewing the negative aspects and the fact the possible positive contracts may not even stay on our side of the table, but that is where I am at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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