qwery_hi Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 What do the rebids mean? 2S2N3m3H? Is there a expert standard (maybe a forums agreement) on what these bids should mean? Also, is there a good webpage that explains what these bids mean and what the tradeoffs for different choices are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 I suspect that most of the forums plays 2/1 rather than any form of SA. The agreements I use are as follows. Most of this follows from the SAYC document if we take seriously the claim that a 2/1 bid promises a rebid by responder (and we assume that the claim that opener's cheapest notrump rebid shows a minimum applies to one-over-one auctions and not at the two level). Rebid 2M is a catch-all denying ability to make any other call. It is forcing one round. Reverse into spades after opening 1♥ is natural and shows extras (GF). Rebidding 2NT is natural and GF. Minimums rebid 2M to slow the auction down. Rebidding 3m is natural and GF. Minimums rebid 2M to slow the auction down. Jump in a new suit is a pure game-forcing 5-5. Jump rebid of opener's suit is game forcing and sets trumps. Over the specific auction 1M-2♣, Elianna and I use 2♦ as the catch-all (natural or diamonds) and the 2M rebid show 6+ in the suit and game values. While this basically trades one nebulous call for another, the 2♦ rebid has the advantage of allowing a cheap artificial game force (2-other-M). Of course, this treatment of 1M-2♣-2♦ is not at all standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbodell Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 I play SA with a few partners. I'm not sure my meanings are expert standard by any means, but we play that: 2S is a catchall bid that is usually a minimum but can be a maximum, usually with a bad long suit and is F1. 2N is 12-14 balanced assuming a strong NT context. This bid is not forcing. 3m, assuming the m is partners m is a natural raise and is F1. 3c/2d shows extras and is natural and GF. 3d/2c is a natural GF. 3h is a natural GF. Bids 2S and below that aren't the rebid are natural and NFConst. Also, you didn't ask about it, but for us reverses after a 2/1 do not show extras. So 1♥-2♣-2♠ has opener with ♥>♠ with 4+♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 I either play 2/1 as GF or the Dutch style "10+". In the latter, the bids mean: 1♠ - 2♣ - ? 2♠: Not forcing2NT: Forcing, maybe a 1-suited hand unsuitable for 3♠3♣: Forcing3♥: Splinter, 2♥ would be forcing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 I am with Gerben. I am just not sure whether 2 ♠ would be passable or just minimum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ochinko Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 In 2/1 2♠ means minimal values, doesn't guarantee more than 5. The way I play SA 2♠ does guarantee 6, so with minimum balanced I bid 2NT. 2♠ is non-forcing, 2NT too. 3 in the same minor is natural, non-forcing. 3♥ is natural with 5+♠/4+♥ and 18+ game-forcing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachy Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Without a 2/1 system and without sophisticated - well, they aren't that sophisticated but not necessarily part of SA - many players simply play that2S - six cards2NT = minimum balanced, no support, no extra spade length, no 4-card heartsRaise of responder's minor = 4-card support and reason not to bid 2NT3H = GF jumpshift It is good to remember that the 2m bidder in any case promises a rebid if bidding is below 2NT and in SAYC (which is not necessarily the same as SA) another bid by a two-over-one responder is guaranteed. There are players that do not follow this, either by agreement or by ignorance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 2S - six cards2NT = minimum balanced, no support, no extra spade length, no 4-card heartsRaise of responder's minor = 4-card support and reason not to bid 2NT3H = GF jumpshift What do they do with a 5125 shape after 1♠-2♦? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachy Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 2S - six cards2NT = minimum balanced, no support, no extra spade length, no 4-card heartsRaise of responder's minor = 4-card support and reason not to bid 2NT3H = GF jumpshift What do they do with a 5125 shape after 1♠-2♦? Those who apply the simple system I described (and I assure you there are many...) will bid an unwise 3C. It is not my system, I was just describing what I see many people play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobowolf Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Or open a wise 1♣? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Or open a wise 1♣? There is no wise 1♣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobowolf Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 If I'm systemically required to have a sixth spade to bid 2♠ (like, if someone died at the table and nobody else could fill in and I owed the director a favor), then I think starting this hand (5-1-2-5 minimum) with 1♣ is the least of evils. In the context of a more standard system where I could rebid a catchall 2♠, I'd certainly open 1♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwery_hi Posted June 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Thanks - I've been pulled in to be a mentor and my partner is transitioning from 4 card majors and penalty doubles at all levels to SA. I think Adam's scheme : After 1M - 2m, the only non-GF (but F1) bids are 2m+1 through 2M, is easy to remember and play. I'll try this out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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