Psychs

[awm]

What do people think about psychs? I've recently seen some odd opinions about when/where psyching should be allowed.

[Jlall]

The one time I think it's unacceptable is if you are an expert playing against a novice in a minor event (if it is something like a flight A regional then they must be playing up and you don't have to cater to them anymore).

 

That being said it should always be allowed, you just shouldn't do it in that situation as an expert.

[kenrexford]

Part of the game.

[Hanoi5]

It should always be allowed as long as partner doesn't expect it. However, directors should have a record of all psychs so that people don't abuse it.

[awm]

I should mention that the question is more: "when do you think it's okay/ethical" and not so much "what do the laws permit."

[Cascade]

"A player may deviate from his side’s announced understandings always

provided that his partner has no more reason to be aware of the deviation

than have the opponents. Repeated deviations lead to implicit

understandings which then form part of the partnership’s methods and must

be disclosed in accordance with the regulations governing disclosure of

system. If the Director judges there is undisclosed knowledge that has

damaged the opponents he shall adjust the score and may award a procedural

penalty."

 

The last option comes close but isn't exactly what the law says which is basically "always".

[Cascade]

I should mention that the question is more: "when do you think it's okay/ethical" and not so much "what do the laws permit."

I don't think psychic calls are about ethics.

 

It is lawful to psyche.

 

It is unlawful to have a hidden partnership understanding.

[Echognome]

I personally wouldn't psych at a club game; partly because there's a good chance my opponents would be beginners and partly because of the grief I might get.

 

I wouldn't say it's not right to psych against any beginners, because I think of the university bridge clubs where anything goes and they are taught psyching is part of the game.

 

Otherwise, in general I think it's ok.

[mtvesuvius]

54 Page Thread, here we come.

[glen]

54 Page Thread, here we come.

Go to "edit my profile", then "board settings", and then for "Number of posts to show for each topic page", select 100 and save

[the hog]

Agree with Wayne. Disagree with Gnome, though I understand his reasonong. Psyches are specifically allowed by the rules. No one has the right to give you grief if you psyche. (unanimous votes so far, btw).

[Echognome]

Actually, grief isn't the right word. I think perhaps "hassle" is. If I am playing at a club, it is either because I am there to play social bridge or I want to practice with a partner for a more serious game. If it is because of the former, then no need to psych to enjoy the game. If it is the latter, then I have no desire to have my partner start getting in his or her head that I am psyching. I prefer it when my partner is truly surprised.

[hanp]

Since it is all love and piece I'll try to add a little controversy:

 

I don't have a problem with psyching against beginners in a club game.

[peachy]

I should mention that the question is more: "when do you think it's okay/ethical" and not so much "what do the laws permit."

To play by the laws and regulations can never be unethical, IMO. If you can give an example when playing by the rules is unethical, I'd like to see it.

 

However, I agree with JLall that psyching against novices in club games is not right (even when it is still legal to do so).

[hrothgar]

Since it is all love and piece I'll try to add a little controversy:

 

I don't have a problem with psyching against beginners in a club game.

I'll go even further...

 

If I were to agree never to psych against beginners in a club game, this would represent a concealed partnership agreement.

 

Partner would be at an advantage because he would KNOW with certainty that I would ever psych in this tye of circumstance.

[hanp]

Since it is all love and piece I'll try to add a little controversy:

 

I don't have a problem with psyching against beginners in a club game.

I'll go even further...

 

If I were to agree never to psych against beginners in a club game, this would represent a concealed partnership agreement.

 

Partner would be at an advantage because he would KNOW with certainty that I would ever psych in this tye of circumstance.

I think you are way off. There is nothing unusual about such an agreement and should the opponents ask then you can answer honestly. There is no reason to prealert this agreement or write it on your conventioncard.

[mtvesuvius]

I psych occaisionally, and I believe that it's a part of the game. I try to avoid psyching in club games when I can, but I will do it occaisionally, since otherwise it's a partnership agreement not to :wacko:. At the last regional I was at, in 3rd seat W vs W, I opened a 2344 8 count (which technically isn't even a psych), and my LHO got extremely bent out of shape and proceeded to lecture me on how I will never make friends in the game psyching. Bull. *****. Psyches are part of the game, and if they cannot understand that, I suggest they don't play. This is something I feel really strongly about, and I just don't think that banning psyching is in the spirit of the game, nor do I think that it helps anyway.

[jillybean]

I am one of those intermediate players some think best to protect from psyches. When I play in an open field, I hope the players will play their best game. If this means psyching, false carding or playing multi so be it, it’s all part of this wonderfully complex game. The first time I encounter something new it can throw me and I get a bottom board. I don’t stop playing, I can learn from it and maybe the next time or the 5th time it happens I will be prepared and get a top board. That buzz when you bid your game in a difficult auction, despite what the opps throw at you, keeps me playing the game.

 

If I want a ‘safe game’ I can always play 0-299ers or new-comer games although playing against other weak players I find is more nerve wrecking, has more weird auctions, bids close to psyches and UI passed than playing against ‘experts’. Suggesting that players should dumb down their game against inexperienced players is both arrogant and I believe, detrimental to my game

[Jlall]

Unfortunately, in the real world most people do not have jillybean's attitude. From experience, I would say almost always that psyching against beginners at a club game leads them to feel cheated or screwed which really makes them mad, and ruins their afternoon or maybe even leads to them quitting bridge. They probably will dislike you and other experts like you forever.

 

Is this rational? No. But tbh I do not think that bridge at the club is just about the game of bridge for these people, it's something that is social and fun rather than killer attitude competitive. I feel like I am on their turf and should accomodate them, much like if they were at a tournament they are on my turf and should expect whatever I have to throw at them.

 

Perhaps I should adopt the attitude "psyching is part of bridge, we are playing bridge, if they can't handle it tough." Perhaps I should even psyche frequently since it is like stealing candy from babies. But instead I adopt the practical attitude that it isn't worth it, and it isn't nice to do something that will ruin their bridge experience in a stupid non serious event.

[qwery_hi]

If you're an expert playing against novices, why would you want to psyche and randomize the result when you can get a good score just by the difference in skill level?

S.J.Simon says something similar in his book.

 

Edit - Rather, I am just repeating what S.J.Simon said 50+ years ago.

[jillybean]

I should add, my view on psyches has been influenced by people who have helped me understand the laws, how and why psyches are permitted. I think a lot of the fear and loathing comes from lack of understanding.

[mtvesuvius]

I should add, my view on psyches has been influenced by people who have helped me understand the laws, how and why psyches are permitted. I think a lot of the fear and loathing comes from lack of understanding.

Agreed, and I try not to do it at club games and things, and I understand the other point of view, but barring them really is not in the spirit of the game imo.

[blackshoe]

If I were to agree never to psych against beginners in a club game, this would represent a concealed partnership agreement.

Only if your partnership concealed it.

[Mbodell]

Unfortunately, in the real world most people do not have jillybean's attitude. From experience, I would say almost always that psyching against beginners at a club game leads them to feel cheated or screwed which really makes them mad, and ruins their afternoon or maybe even leads to them quitting bridge. They probably will dislike you and other experts like you forever.

How much of this is psyching and how much is just doing anything unusual? I mean if you play mini-nt or a strong club system will these same people react all that much differently than when you psych?

 

Sometimes it isn't even unusual, it is just not what the person expects. I had one person (a nlm, but not a beginner) at the club get very angry and call the director last Tuesday when, after she asked and was correctly informed that we play standard discards, saw me discarded the ♦4 from K8642 sitting behind a dummy that had AQJ9x of diamonds and then she lost a diamond finesse into me. The diamond K was the only honor in my hand, but the declarer was convinced that if we played standard signals I must discard the 8 to show the K and that my much milder signal must deny the K. I wasn't even false carding as I was planning on discarding 4-2-6 if given the chance on the run of trumps!

[glen]

On weekday afternoons there is a local club we go to if we are not working (i.e. rarely). The club is run by one of Canada's top players, and has mostly retired people playing, some over 80. There are two clear rules: 1) never open 1NT with a singleton, 2) no wild psychs. We are cool with these rules: they make his customers more comfortable, and it reduces TD calls. This isn't 100% bridge, but club bridge is never 100% bridge (e.g. in any club game, excluding the Flight A IMP league, we call the TD about once every 10 sessions, which is not the rate of possible infractions).

 

There are also clubs that allow infrequent psychs, at most 1 per session, or, in actual practice, at most 1 per session that results in a TD call. At these clubs it is clear not to over psych, and some players will even enjoy having you "banned" from making any subsequent psychs for the session. This is cool too - not 100% bridge but everybody remains comfortable, and there are no psych fests.

 

Even though both these approaches are not ideal for pure bridge, they reflect what is sometimes necessary to impose at the club level to keep everybody comfortable. These approaches are effective when they are done with clear rules, provided by open communications to all players.