mtvesuvius Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 NV vs V at IMPs you hold: J962Q9753Q875 You deal: P - (P) - 3♦ - (4♦)? How high are you going here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 6♦, for starters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 7♦. I strongly believe in preempting to the limit right away on slam auctions, for all the same reasons it's right on game auctions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 six or seven Depends on a number of factors like how likely it is partner has only six diamonds, what the agreement is for 4♦, possibly how light LHO would have opened etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 7♦ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 5NT, inviting a save at the 7 level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 5NT, inviting a save at the 7 level. Do you honestly think pard will have two defensive tricks? 7♦ for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 5NT, inviting a save at the 7 level. Do you honestly think pard will have two defensive tricks? Its possible if six-diamonds and a side ace is a possible hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 It's a 3rd seat opener. Pard can very well have some defensive values. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 six or seven Depends on a number of factors like how likely it is partner has only six diamonds, what the agreement is for 4♦, possibly how light LHO would have opened etc lol 3rd seat w/r, why would he have 7? 5 is expected. I bid 6♦. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 six or seven Depends on a number of factors like how likely it is partner has only six diamonds, what the agreement is for 4♦, possibly how light LHO would have opened etc lol 3rd seat w/r, why would he have 7? 5 is expected. Partnerships vary and they might or might not have a weak two in diamonds available. That reminds me when I was asked once "could he have six?" and I replied "yeah sometimes he has as many as six" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 5NT, inviting a save at the 7 level. Do you honestly think pard will have two defensive tricks? Its possible if six-diamonds and a side ace is a possible hand.yes, and yes to cascade's previous post. What would 2D have shown? I wish pard were in first seat, then 7D is easy. So now we have to have a gadget to uncover the nature of the 3d bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickRW Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 7♦ for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 Question -- is there a bid that says "6♦ partbner, but I'm thinking 7, but for (a.) u might have crap and (b.) I have some defense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Question -- is there a bid that says "6♦ partbner, but I'm thinking 7, but for (a.) u might have crap and (b.) I have some defense?see whereagles, above...perhaps a passed hand wont need 5nt for a grand slam force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 3D in third seat can range from a terrible to quite a reasonable hand. I am bidding 5D and passing thereafter. 5D may well be high enough to shut the opps out of a slam they MIGHT have.Even a pass at this stage is not out of the question and I might well do that, dependin on whom I am playing against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanp Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 5D, let's see what happens. We can bid 7♦ later, I'm not afraid of them bidding a grand slam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Question -- is there a bid that says "6♦ partbner, but I'm thinking 7, but for (a.) u might have crap and (b.) I have some defense? Given that a pre-empter is usually trained not to bid again. After third seat perhaps unusual actions should be consultative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 5D, let's see what happens. We can bid 7♦ later, I'm not afraid of them bidding a grand slam. Do you mean you're not afraid of them making one? In that case why not make your LHO guess right away when he might bid one, that would be the real big gainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcurt Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Why isn't anyone considering the likely damage in 7♦? I'm betting on 1400 away, which means the save is a very bad idea over an opposing 6M. We aren't playing BAM. I'm going to bid 4♥. If I'm really lucky, I'll move them to spades, where we have a chance to set their small slam on a ruff. That's not happening if the play in hearts. Maybe I should go post in the psyching thread now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdanno Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Why isn't anyone considering the likely damage in 7♦? I'm betting on 1400 away, which means the save is a very bad idea over an opposing 6M. We aren't playing BAM. I would guess 1100, with 1400 a little more likely than 800 - just ♦AKxxxx with three hearts gives us 8 tricks. He could have 7 diamonds, or ♦AJxxxx with an outside trick (♣Kx), expecting 1400 seems a little pessimistic to me.Nevertheless, your point that the premium is high seems right. I convinced myself to bid 6♦, and be done with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Betting on 1400? You are one unlucky soul. Anyway apologies for being a bit redundant, but if you believe you are going for 1400, and you believe your opponents don't have a grand (I don't agree that either assumption is worth assuming but let's go with it) then bidding 7♦ now is either win 1 or win 17 vs your teammates slam depending on whether or not the opponents guess right. If you bid 6 planning to bid 7 if needed, then you are badly hurting your chances to win 17 in an effort to try to win 8. But since I think 1100 is much more likely than 1400 and 800 is about equally as likely as 1400, I'll do it all over again. Bid 7 now is win 8 or win 17. Bid 6 first hurts your chances at 17 in an effort to win just 4 more than the 8 you would win for being in 7. If you are going for 800 then bidding 7 is win 12 or win 17. Bidding 6 first hurts your odds of 17 in an effort to win just 2 extra! And of course if your opponents really have a grand they will be on a much harder time figuring that out if you bid 7 right away than if you bid 6 or 5 first. I mean despite all the above (sorry if it was incomprehensible, my point was the gains from playing 6♦X compared to 7♦X pale in comparison to the gains from making opponents guess wrong) this is such a simple situation to me. You bid to your highest intended level right away when sacrificing because your opponents will guess wrong a lot more often, and that's where the big imp gains are. I don't understand why some people who know this is the right strategy at lower levels all of a sudden change their minds at high levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdanno Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Josh, why are you so sure they are making 6? Maybe 7♦ is lose PLENTY with -1100 against +100 in their 6M.If we knew they are making 6, then I would agree that 7♦ is better than 6♦. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 My point isn't not to bid 6, it's not to bid 6 then 7. I was just arguing it in the context of my chosen bid. I do think it's a lot more likely than not they make 6 though. And at this vul I just don't think you can afford to let them play it, even going for 1100 is a sizable gain against a slam, bigger than 420 vs. 170 for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 If partner has a semi-normal pre-empt 6-9 or so with 6 or 7 diamonds then I think it is pretty likely that they will have a slam. The biggest danger of a high pre-empt is when partner has something a bit off-beat (but normal for many in third seat) with some defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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