Too big to pre-empt?

[AnJoe]

Vulnerable, dealer, you hold

 

xxx

AKQJxxx

xx

x

 

Do you pre-empt 3H, or 4H?

Or do you count length points and open 1 H?

Or do you pass in first seat because you hold 3 spades?

 

This particular hand has touched off a lot of discussion at our club, with votes for all four options.

What is reason for your choice?

 

love

joan

[mtvesuvius]

1♥, I don't pre-empt 6 loser hands with a solid suit... This is somewhat near a 4♥ bid but pass would be LOL.

[the hog]

Well, pass is totally out of the question. I have 3 Spades....so what?

If you play a convention showing a solid suit, (we use 3NT here for a solid Major), you could open that.

I open 4H, which is a bit aggressive, but I doubt you will get doubled, and there are too many hands partner could have that she will pass, where 4H is cold.

[CSGibson]

unfavorable, I'm a 3 heart bidder. Equal or favorable and I'm a 4 heart bidder.

[Phil]

nv/v: 1♥

 

otherwise - 4♥.

[Cascade]

Vulnerable versus not I am a full trick short of a minimum 4♥. I will open 1♥.

 

All Vulnerable I am near the minimum for 4♥. I would probably open 1♥.

 

For completeness ...

 

Nil Vulnerable 4♥ is fine for me.

 

Favourable I am a maximum for 4♥ - I might again open 1♥ since we open a lot of rubbish at these colours.

[gnasher]

Having three small spades certainly makes a preempt less attractive. Suppose, instead, that I had a singleton spade. That would make it more likely that 4♠ would go down if I pushed them into it. It would also increase the chance that they have a big spade fit, so increasing the variance in what they can make.

 

For me, at game all, the difference between this hand and x AKQJxxx xxx x is the difference between opening 1♥ and opening 4♥. At adverse I'd open 1♥ on either hand.

[Hanoi5]

I'd also prefer 4♥, though having 3 spades is a little against it. 1♥ is too much.

[whereagles]

To decide whether to pree or not, one has to look not at "strength" or hcp, but to the nature of the hand. Offensive hands preempt, defensive hands don't.

 

Well, this hand is very offensive. We score at the very best 2 tricks in defense, whereas we can make 7 ourselves in offense. Therefore 4♥ is really a wtp bid to me.

 

Or perhaps 3NT gambling, if you also allow majors into the bid.

[ArtK78]

I prefer 1♥. There are many hands that partner might have which makes 3NT the best possible contract, so you should not "jump" to the conclusion that preempting is the best way to handle the hand.

[hanp]

I would not open 4H vulnerable and I would not even consider any other preempt.

[barryallen]

To decide whether to pree or not, one has to look not at "strength" or hcp, but to the nature of the hand. Offensive hands preempt, defensive hands don't.

 

Well, this hand is very offensive. We score at the very best 2 tricks in defense, whereas we can make 7 ourselves in offense. Therefore 4♥ is really a wtp bid to me.

 

Or perhaps 3NT gambling, if you also allow majors into the bid.

There is a lot in what you say and I look at the difficulty any bid gives to my partner and the opposition. There is usually a down side to most bids but I would view the overall as being in favour of the direct 4 bid. Not getting into the 3NT with a pre-emptive major but would be interested to hear anyone that feels they would change their strategy with ♠ instead of ♥?

[NickRW]

Pass is totally out of the question with this much playing strength. If we pass and then partner bids, he/she is never going to believe we have this hand type.

 

If you have agreements that cover this sort of thing, like maybe the 3NT options that have been metioned (or whatever), then you should make the bid your agreements say.

 

In the absence of good agreements, then, if "vulnerable" actually means adverse, then, to my mind, 7 playing tricks is not enough for 4♥. If, under these circumstances, 3♥ means this playing strength, then 3♥ is fine - otherwise it has to be 1♥.

 

If "vulnerable" means equal, then 4♥ is a possibility - but the 3 spade cards are a bit of a flaw to my mind - kinda looks like if 4♠ is right for them they'll bid it anyway and if it isn't right, they probably won't be fooled - so maybe 4♥ won't work out. Also, there is the possibility of 3NT being a reasonable contract for our side. But on other hands 4♥ might work fine - so 4♥ is a bit of a gamble. In any case, opening 1♥ is OK.

 

Nick