H_KARLUK Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 [hv=d=s&v=n&n=sk93h7652d863cj64&w=s75hkt4dakjt2c985]266|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv] South opens with a forcing bid and eventually plays in four spades. West attacks with top diamonds, and when Q drops on 2nd round he pauses. What should West play at trick three ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickf Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 I need another clue. Who dropped the Queen doubleton? Was it declarer or partner? I guess this influences the next card I play. nickfsydney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 I need another clue. Who dropped the Queen doubleton? Was it declarer or partner? I guess this influences the next card I play. nickfsydney no kidding :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_KARLUK Posted June 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Sorry. Declarer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfedrick Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 South opens with a forcing bid and eventually plays in four spades. West attacks with top diamonds, and when Q drops on 2nd round he pauses. What should West play at trick three ?The rather formal, 1950s-sounding English makes me think that this is just a hand lifted from an aged textbook (Reese?). If it's not, and this deal really occurred in the last 48 hours, I apologise sincerely. Anyway, i play a club (necessary if declarer has eg AQJxxx AQJ Qx Ax). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoi5 Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 ♦J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Does partner still have ♦9? If not, a club might cost if declarer has AQJ10xx AQx Q9 AQ - he can eliminate clubs and endplay me with the last diamond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfedrick Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Does partner still have ♦9? If not, a club might cost if declarer has AQJ10xx AQx Q9 AQ - he can eliminate clubs and endplay me with the last diamond.true, but your construction requires a very precise hand for declarer (he needs the spade 10, and exactly ♦Q9). Moreover, unless he also has the ♠2 (and remembers not to burn it on the first two rounds), he has to choose between the end-play and the simple heart finesse, a choice i would expect him to get wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 If standard count is being used, partner presumably played 3rd card and now either 1st or 2nd. Which? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_KARLUK Posted June 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Your patrner played 4 and 7 of diamonds. Declarer played 5 of diamonds then Q dropped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachy Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Surely there were more clues at the table.What was the auction?What were the diamond spots played at trick 1 and 2?Do we play standard or UDCA signals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 (edited) true, but your construction requires a very precise hand for declarer (he needs the spade 10, and exactly ♦Q9).Well, there's a reasonable chance that I'd know whether declarer played ♦9 at trick one, and he's quite likely to have ♠10 to compensate for all the other gaps in his hand (assuming that he showed a game-force rather than something like an Acol Two).Moreover, unless he also has the ♠2 (and remembers not to burn it on the first two rounds), he has to choose between the end-play and the simple heart finesse, a choice i would expect him to get wrong.If trumps are 2-2, the endplay is as good as the heart finesse - whoever wins will be forced to play hearts anyway. If trumps are 3-1, he just takes a heart finesse instead of playing a diamond. Edit: Deleted the nonsense about declarer having ♣AQJ Edited June 4, 2009 by gnasher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Dealer: South Vul: N/S Scoring: IMP [space] ♠ K93 ♥ 7652 ♦ 863 ♣ J64 ♠ 75 ♥ KT4 ♦ AKJT2 ♣ 985 doc/images/table.png South opens with a forcing bid and eventually plays in four spades. West attacks with top diamonds, and when Q drops on 2nd round he pauses. What should West play at trick three ?When seeking an A/E opinion, please give the basic information that an A/E player would have at the table. Thus, the bidding is, strangely enough, often of some use... And knowing our defensive methods and precisely what cards partner played, and in which order, can be helpful. As others have pointed out, it is possible that partner, with, say, the heart A, would play his lowest then his highest diamonds from xxx, to give suit preference. At the table, we'd know if we had that agreement on defence... If, as certainly seems plausible, this is a hand from an old text, posting the bidding as beginning with, for example, 2♠ would be a give-away... and in those days, when that style was popular, most Wests would pass.... these days, if S opened 1♣ (in a big club method) or 2♣, West might well bid... in which case inferences may be available from partner's actions or inactions. And so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 I agree with playing a club, it seems often necessary and possibly urgent to set up a trick there. But true more details would be nice. For example, did south show a game force or just some sort of old fashioned 2 level force? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Partner started with 974. Seeing the Ace, he would presumably play 4 first. However, he had the option of playing 4-7 or 4-9. Technically, he also had the option of playing 7-9 when seeing the top-honor lead, but few would actually do that even if it means something. The normal default is 4-7-9. So, the 4-7-9 play is probably least reliable as indicating a club card. But, 4-9 is fairly reliable as indicating a heart card, such that 4-7-9 can be fairly reliable that partner does not have the heart card, so long as partner is active in his thinking in this sort of situation. So, I'd say that there is a slight inference that partner either has nothing to show or has a club card. At least, the club card is more likely than the heart card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I agree with Ken's reasoning and therefore play a Club.Hamdi has lifted this from somewhere. There are too many vowels for the vocabulary to be his. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_KARLUK Posted June 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 [hv=d=s&v=n&n=sk93h7652d863cj64&w=s75hkt4dakjt2c985&e=s62hj83d974cqt732&s=saqjt84haq9dq5cak]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] It's unsafe to continue 3rd ♦ !Declarer will ruff, play off ♣ AK. Cross to table with ♠9. Ruff ♣J. Low ♠ to K will complete elimination. Then he will be in a position to lead a ♥ from dummy, covering East's card as cheaply as possible. On winning trick West will have to choose between returning a ♥ into tenace and conceding a ruff&discard. West should refuse to help elimination of side suits. A passive switch to a ♠ or ♣ at trick three sets contract, for declarer lacks entries in dummy to eliminate both minor suits. He has to fall back on a straight ♥ finesse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_KARLUK Posted June 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I agree with Ken's reasoning and therefore play a Club.Hamdi has lifted this from somewhere. There are too many vowels for the vocabulary to be his. See a Doctor. Immediately ! You need help but I am busy a lot to have fun with Bridge game. It was just a scoresheet from many years ago i kept. I never browse your posts, why dont you try another direction ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I never browse your posts, why dont you try another direction ? Really, then why did you reply to this one? rofl :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_KARLUK Posted June 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I never browse your posts, why dont you try another direction ? Really, then why did you reply to this one? rofl :) I am topic starter. I do not want you in my topics. I never commented your topics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_KARLUK Posted June 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 South opens with a forcing bid and eventually plays in four spades. West attacks with top diamonds, and when Q drops on 2nd round he pauses. What should West play at trick three ?The rather formal, 1950s-sounding English makes me think that this is just a hand lifted from an aged textbook (Reese?). If it's not, and this deal really occurred in the last 48 hours, I apologise sincerely. Anyway, i play a club (necessary if declarer has eg AQJxxx AQJ Qx Ax). Hi :)No worries please. Thanks for your analyse.Hamdips. I born in 1956. It was just a scoresheet from many years ago i kept. Most probably year 1986 - first local club experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanp Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 This hand is from a book, definitely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_KARLUK Posted June 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 This hand is from a book, definitely. I only remember that we played predealt hands there many times. As a beginner to tournaments in that years I had not a chance to pick hands . So i have no idea about source. I kept some hands that i found interesting. Noted into my bridge diary & archive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I am topic starter. I do not want you in my topics. I never commented your topics. They're not your topics. When you post something on a public forum, it belongs to the public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_KARLUK Posted June 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I am topic starter. I do not want you in my topics. I never commented your topics. They're not your topics. When you post something on a public forum, it belongs to the public. We disagree. It's topic starter's "corner". It's a matter of maturity. No need childish emotional subjective appeals. I am ok when everybody publish their ideas about "self technical analyses". I am against loaded questions, prejudices, personal conflicts, halftruths, demonization, mischaracterization, scapegoating. Is it really hard not to criticize in a harsh way about another post? I know that very old method : You are with us or not. Neutrals disallowed. My way is different : Let readers decide which opinion good for them. Meanwhile does that person unable to defend his ideas and you advocate for him ? Where do I attend ? To a cyber open multi wrestling show or to a serious bridge forum ? As a resume behave on forums like at bridge tables "no to gloating, sarcasm" ! You should better think again : Would you like to visit a place that you are not wanted there ? I assume you will agree that attitudes determine altitudes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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