Game invitation

[zasanya]

[hv=s=saxxhxxdqjxxxcakx]133|100|Partner opens weak 2♥[/hv]

 

Is this hand good enough to look for game?

[vuroth]

I would expect that partner could reasonably take 5 tricks NV, 6 tricks V.

 

I'm really only offering 3, so I think I'll pass.

[kenrexford]

Give partner an ideal hand.

 

Give him one of the top two diamonds, plus two of the top three hearts. Maybe ♠xx(x) ♥A(K/Q)10xxx ♦(A/K)x ♣xx(x)

 

On a spade lead, you expect to lose the lead quickly enough opposite this ideal hand to lose 1.333 spades. You expect to lose at least one heart. You expect to lose .75 diamonds (depending on what diamond honor he has). So, opposite a great hand, you expect to lose at least 3.083 tricks if hearts can be held to only one loser.

 

If you were using a feature ask, you might find out that partner actually has the Ace or King in diamonds and a maximum (hence probably decent trumps), but at a high cost.

 

So, I would not explore game unless I was in a match where I needed to look for magic.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

it depends on your agreement, which should take the vulnerability into account.

 

But if you assume the classis 2-3 rule, that means p promises to go down at

most -2 being red, -3 being green, than you see, that your hand will be able to

provide 3 sure tricks, the 4th trick being unclear.

 

Assuming you play feature ask, and if partner promised to go down at most 2,

you can bid 2NT, intending to bid bid 4H, if partner showes diamond values and

to sign of otherwise, if he bids 4H holding a max, ... maybe you are lucky.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Phil]

Not quite enough to boost or invite game.

[mtvesuvius]

Nope. I would use Ken's logic, but without the decimals :)

[cherdanno]

Shorter Ken: Game would be 50% if partner has good hearts and a 1♥ opening hand, with exactly the right 6322 shape.

[neilkaz]

Unless PD's weak 2's are really stout (ie 1♥ openings for most of us here) and you can find a ♦ high card feature, game looks like an underdog to me.

 

So...opposite most PD's you can safely pass with the knowledge that game is unlikely and in hopes that the opp's balance into trouble.

[kenrexford]

Oh, sure! Ignore that 0.083% chance! Bid like a lunatic!

[Jlall]

nope

[Cascade]

Depends on the range of your weak twos and maybe the seat?

 

Opposite my partner's weak twos I would hope to make 8 tricks under some conditions.

[the hog]

Pass.

[neilkaz]

I'l chime in here again, and say that when you need PD to have a perfecta for game/slam odds are that he won't have it. If you're at risk of being set when you invite or that you may get to game/slam when it is nearly hopeless as acceptances will occur when he doesn't have everything needed, or you'll think he does and bid on, but fail.

 

My longwinded point here is that you need PD to have exactly the ideal hand for game here and he's a clear underdog to have it, just pass.

 

When inviting here, you risk getting set at the 3 level and also usually prevent LHO from balancing and finding this his pard is nearly broke.

 

Here's an example from last night when I held a hand almost as good as responder's here after PD's weak 2♥. LHO balanced 2♠ on 5♠ and 10 HCP and was raised to 2NT by RHO and LHO carried on to 3NT :blink: ..I doubled as they have no where to get tricks from. 3NT went -2 and should've been -3 but PD covered the stiff ♥J lead from the board with her K. PD would've have been set in 2♥x (stack over a very poor suit Kxxxxx) and 3♥x would've been awful had I messed around with a very pushy invite.

 

I'll close by saying that so many B/I don't have any basic methods of continuing after PD opens a weak 2. For this older player and for what is basic SAYC...it is RONF.. Raise Only Non Forcing. 2NT is feature ask (I prefer to Ogust unless playing free wheeling weak 2's) and any other bid other than raises is F1.

 

For those opening cruddy weak 2's, Ogust makes more sense and they may want to play that they can pass PD's minimal new suit bid..as PD's 3♣ on KJT9xxx may be a lot better than their 2♠ on K8xxxx.

 

Another thing I see many players doing lately is that it seems that they think my preemptive 2 and 3 openings are transfers to 3NT. I open 2M and they hold a random 15 count and they always bid 3NT (no Ogust.. no feature ask..etc) and that lack a fitting honor card in my suit and don't have a running 6 card minor and

-2 or -3 is always the result.

 

.. neilkaz ..

[hanp]

Perhaps another piece of advice is instead of counting your points and using some rule for when to bid game, try to visualize what hands partner needs to have for games to be good and think about how likely those hands are. Then think about how likely the hands are where you will get to a bad game or you stop at the 3-level and get set.

 

This is of course much harder than counting your points (at least for me), but it is also much more fun (at least for me).

[gwnn]

Agree with Han. In our club we have a pretty good player who is, however, obsessed with "slam points". He had something like

 

xxx

A

Kxxxx

Axxx

 

And over 1♠ from his partner, he strongly invited slam after his partner showed a minimum opening sustaining that "I have 16 slampoints! If you can't count slampoints, don't criticize me!" I asked him what he needed for slam to succeed and he told me that I shouldn't criticize him either.

[skjaeran]

Even playing very constructive weak twos I wouldn't get too excited with this hand. Might miss game vs a perfect fitting hand.