another break in tempo

[aguahombre]

[hv=d=w&v=n&s=saktxhaqjxxxdaxxc]133|100|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

 

(3C) P (P) ?

 

Partner, relatively inexperienced but very good, has failed to act for about 30 seconds before passing. The previous hand, which often causes him to fail to act in tempo on the next one, was uneventful.

[TylerE]

X seems 100% clear cut, with or without the BIT.

[mtvesuvius]

LA LA LA Double LA LA LA

 

:D

[hanp]

The break in tempo suggest acting so I guess you have to pass.

[blackshoe]

I don't think passing is a logical alternative here.

[skjaeran]

The bridge player who'd pass this hand doesn't exist.

 

Pass isn't a LA, so you're free to double (or make some other bid).

[whereagles]

Looking at my hand I'd say the hesitation shows clubs and suggests doubling. I would bid 4♥ to avoid legal problems.

[TylerE]

I think doubling is so clear cut as to make an initial double a 100% action from a legal standpoint. Where the UI becomes more troubling is when (if??) we get into a slam auction.

[hanp]

If we double and partner bids, clearly the double should leave us better placed than a jump to 4H. The only possible reason to bid 4H directly would be the fear that partner passes out 3CX (although I don't think that we should be very afraid of this with this much defense, it will often score better than game).

 

If the BIT suggests a good hand with some clubs then the most unethical bid to make would therefore be the jump to 4H. I also think it wouldn't be a good bid.

 

I would double. If partner bids 3D then I jump to 4H and hopefully partner will do something intelligent. If partner bids 4S then I will bid 4C and will force to slam if partner bids anything but 4S. If partner bids 3H then I will bid 5C (exclusion).

[gwnn]

I see no alternative to x, logical or not.

[Codo]

I think I would cash all the doubles which rate to produce a good score.

 

If you have a next to solid 6 card major, there is an alternative to doubling.

So, what hands can partner have?

 

1. He has a penalty pass of club.

2. He has a one (or two suiter) but is short of values to bid it.

 

 

What else can he have?

 

So in both relevant cases, X is the suggested bid. YOu may still choose it, but you must pay the price when the AC sees a LA to double. (And I would see one).

[Hanoi5]

Isn't 4♥ an alternative to double? I think the BIT suggests doubling for penalty, but if that was going to be my bid anyway, then I double.

[aguahombre]

to me the only relevant hand that could possibly have a problem directly over 3 clubs is a balanced (say) 15 count, such as 3334. If partner had this hand, he would probably pass the double, and we would be cold for slam. Therefore Double is the only bid not suggested by the undue hesitation. Therefore I doubled. the commitee, after getting back on their chairs from laughter, agreed.

 

partner's hand was xx - xxxx aJxxxxx

 

P.s., hanp got it right for the right reasons with his ethics statement.

 

 

Some twenty-odd years ago.

[crazy4hoop]

If the definition of a logical alternative is an alternative action that at least a significant minority of one's peers would consider selecting, then we must ask if a significant minority of your peers would consider doing something other than doubling. If so, then that action is deemed a logical alternative. If not, then the double would stand, etc. At least that's how I interpret things. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, which happens a lot! :)

[cherdanno]

Someone who doesn't double on this can't be my peer!

(Yeah right, this would work well in front of a committee.)

[the hog]

I think I would cash all the doubles which rate to produce a good score.

 

If you have a next to solid 6 card major, there is an alternative to doubling.

So, what hands can partner have?

 

1. He has a penalty pass of club.

2. He has a one (or two suiter) but is short of values to bid it.

 

 

What else can he have?

 

So in both relevant cases, X is the suggested bid. YOu may still choose it, but you must pay the price when the AC sees a LA to double. (And I would see one).

Roland, you can't be seious here. Blind Freddy would double on this hand.

[Codo]

I am serious. Ask his peers whether they consider 3 or 4 HEart to doubling. When they do, you cannot double without a problem.

 

I do not know his peers but I am quite sure that at most bridge clubs heart bids would be a popular choice.

[helene_t]

Dunno whether 4♥ is an LA. It didn't occur to me but maybe it would to some "peers".

 

Anyway, partner's pass suggests he is close to bidding something. He could have all kind of things. If my hand had been a lot weaker and pass were an LA, then maybe I should pass for ethical reasons. As it is, I don't see how either double or 4♥ could be suggested by the BIT.

 

BTW, the fact that p had an obvious pass and nevertheless tanked for 30 secs shows that there is no such thing as a BIT by this particular p.

[Gerben42]

We all agree that Pass is not a LA. But to the question what does the slow pass suggest? For one thing not a penalty pass of 3♣, since partner would simply pass with that.

 

My guess would be a marginal hand with some length in ♣ but a bad suit, so doesn't want to bid 3♦ or 3♠ or the like. This would suggest doubling, trying to find partner's suit.

 

We have the choice between bidding ♥ and Dbl, and since the slow pass suggest doubling, I would bid 4♥.

[jdonn]

So either pass implies club length and therefore we can't double, or pass implies club length but defending clubs is bad so we must double?

 

Whatever, double is so obvious that if they take it away from me I will be not the least bit pleased.

[Codo]

Josh, what do you think a slow pass implies?

 

I think:

 

1. A hand with one suit but slightly too weak to bid it?

2. A hand with two suits, but just too weak to bid?

3. A hand close to a 3 NT bid?

 

I think all these hands are possible. And with all this hands a double will win over 4 Heart.

[jdonn]

Josh, what do you think a slow pass implies?

 

I think:

 

1. A hand with one suit but slightly too weak to bid it?

2. A hand with two suits, but just too weak to bid?

3. A hand close to a 3 NT bid?

 

I think all these hands are possible. And with all this hands a double will win over 4 Heart.

Maybe that's because double is obviously a far superior bid to 4♥, and also wins opposite most of the hands partner didn't imply?

[Codo]

I guess you have a reason why you did not answer the question: There are no hands, where the slow pass suggested 4 Heart over double.

 

So the only way to get a good score by doubling is knowing that nearly all peers would do the same.

 

Luckily your peers are Justin, Arend, Han et al, so you have no problem with doubling. But I would be surprised if this would be the most popular vote on our Tuesday evening club game.

 

I must admit that I am not so sure about my peers. Especially opposite a TD who asks which other bids they did consider.... I guess I had chosen X without the BIT and 4 Heart with.

[jdonn]

I'll have to take your word for it on the Tuesday night club game. But double is so obvious that I would be insulted if they even bothered to ask my peers.

[helene_t]

Some hands p couldn't have since he tanked:

- A trap pass (as he actually had, lol). Not sure if we want to double opposite that. Depends how many hearts he has I think.

- Some weak hand. We can bid 4♥ over his 3♦ bid, in which case it won't matter. If he responds 3♠ we will probably try 4♣ and then pass 4♠, which I think on average will be a little better than 4♥. I might be wrong.

- Some boring 9-11 points. Again, if he bids 4♠ and we go for a spade slam I think we are slightly better off than if we had bid 4♥ and he then either passed or tried for 6♥ which we accept of course.

 

I may be wrong but I don't think 4♥ would be particularly attractive opposite and easy initial pass by p.