Undo's

[williamoss]

Undo's should be allowed only during the bidding process. This mimics the silent bid of pulling a card out of the box and declaring mechanical mistake, replacing the bidding cards, and the pulling our the correct bid. Say you pulled a 2 of clubs and meant to pull the 3 of clubs. One just states the mechanical mistake, puts the 2 of clubs back into the bidding box and then pulls out the 3 of clubs. No foul was committed.

 

I suggest that the software be changed that once the bidding is over there are no more UNDO'S for that hand. This is because in live bridge if a card is drawn from a hand and is seen by any player, the card must be immediately played or it sits on the table and is played whenever the first opportunity occurs.

[helene_t]

Agree, but as host you can always state that no undo's should be ask for (or granted, if they are asked for anyway) during the play.

[Trumpace]

Undo's should be allowed only during the bidding process. This mimics the silent bid of pulling a card out of the box and declaring mechanical mistake, replacing the bidding cards, and the pulling our the correct bid. Say you pulled a 2 of clubs and meant to pull the 3 of clubs. One just states the mechanical mistake, puts the 2 of clubs back into the bidding box and then pulls out the 3 of clubs. No foul was committed.

 

I suggest that the software be changed that once the bidding is over there are no more UNDO'S for that hand. This is because in live bridge if a card is drawn from a hand and is seen by any player, the card must be immediately played or it sits on the table and is played whenever the first opportunity occurs.

If you want to make it closer to real life, why not change the software to allow playing the wrong suit, or even play when it is not your turn? How about allowing to play 2-3 cards at the same time? :P

 

I don't agree with the suggestion at all. Using the computer to play gives rise to other mechanical problems not possible in live bridge, like my mouse clicking a card I didn't intend to click.

 

Besides, it is not fun to be stuck with a wrongly played card when that sort of thing happens.

 

And what if we are on a table with all friends? UNDOs should be allowed anytime.

 

Frankly I don't understand the need for this suggestion. If you are an opponent, you can always reject UNDO requests. If you are the one needing UNDO, don't ask! Having the UNDO should not bother you in any case.

[onoway]

Agree with trumpace. Tables can be set for no undos if you want, or you can simply disallow them when asked. For teaching and practice tables alone, undos are a valuable tool at times. Also, there is little fun in playing a hand out that someone's mouse hiccupped and they ended up in 7 !h instead of 7!d.

[matmat]

don't like undos in the play? great! don't allow them at your table, but don't screw it up for everyone else.

[Phil]

Well, I can tell you from experience that if undos weren't allowed, people would need them less, since they would be paying more attention. I'm not sure this is a good thing, however, because most people on BBO are playing for fun and don't care if they give their opponents an occasional undo.

 

Yet, undo's can lead to awkwardness. Should you allow an undo in card play after the person waits five seconds? Or in bidding after a protracted period of time? Even in JEC matches I have seen requests for undos after an extended period of time.

 

Perhaps a solution is to allow undos in the relaxed bridge club, but for the main bridge club, don't allow undos.

[jdonn]

Yes let's reduce variety to the point that exactly one person has exactly what he wants.

 

I think this suggestion just proves how much some people need undos on different things in life.

[mtvesuvius]

If you don't want to allow undos, fine. But I know that I feel really stupid when I were to lead and ace from my hand, and misclick on the king from dummy so I go down in a cold grand that we relayed up to. Please, for the good of everyone, keep it the way it is, it's not mandatory you allow undos, although when I'm playing with friends we have undos in all sorts of weird situations... IMO it's completely absurd to ban them.

[Oof Arted]

;)

 

Surley undos are generally only needed for 'Genuine' misclicks.

 

I myself think you should LIVE with your mistakes

 

It might make you more Careful and pay more attention

 

:rolleyes:

[jillybean]

I suggest that the software be changed that once the bidding is over there are no more UNDO'S for that hand. This is because in live bridge if a card is drawn from a hand and is seen by any player, the card must be immediately played or it sits on the table and is played whenever the first opportunity occurs.

Not entirely true. Declarer can take a card from her hand, show it to the opps, put it back and play another. Only when the card is "held face up, touching or nearly touching the table" is it considered played.

Defender must play any card held so that it is possible for her partner to see.

This is one of the laws Ive found many players mis-quote and TD’s have their own interpretation.

 

Ideally, separate undo functions for bidding and declarer/defender play should be available.

[Oof Arted]

I suggest that the software be changed that once the bidding is over there are no more UNDO'S for that hand. This is because in live bridge if a card is drawn from a hand and is seen by any player, the card must be immediately played or it sits on the table and is played whenever the first opportunity occurs.

Not entirely true. Declarer can take a card from her hand, show it to the opps, put it back and play another. Only when the card is "held face up, touching or nearly touching the table" is it considered played.

Defender must play any card held so that it is possible for her partner to see.

This is one of the laws Ive found many players mis-quote and TD’s have their own interpretation.

 

Ideally, separate undo functions for bidding and declarer/defender play should be available.

;)

 

spot on jillybean

 

:rolleyes:

[matmat]

IMO it's completely absurd to ban them.

I'd like to ban weird situations too :rolleyes:

[mtvesuvius]

IMO it's completely absurd to ban them.

I'd like to ban weird situations too :rolleyes:

While we are at it, why don't we ban Self-Alerting and the ability to see your own convention card... Oh, and it's not fair to be able to redeal if you saw someone's cards, so let's make it like in IRL... You use the info to your advantage, and don't tell anyone!

[matmat]

IMO it's completely absurd to ban them.

I'd like to ban weird situations too :rolleyes:

While we are at it, why don't we ban Self-Alerting and the ability to see your own convention card... Oh, and it's not fair to be able to redeal if you saw someone's cards, so let's make it like in IRL... You use the info to your advantage, and don't tell anyone!

we could also ban table chat, kibitzers (oh wait...), and, while we're at it, psychs

[mtvesuvius]

IMO it's completely absurd to ban them.

I'd like to ban weird situations too :rolleyes:

While we are at it, why don't we ban Self-Alerting and the ability to see your own convention card... Oh, and it's not fair to be able to redeal if you saw someone's cards, so let's make it like in IRL... You use the info to your advantage, and don't tell anyone!

we could also ban table chat, kibitzers (oh wait...), and, while we're at it, psychs

Also, we should make North have to change the boards, instead of it being automatic.

[0 carbon]

Don't undo the undoes! :(

 

tOM

[helene_t]

If you want to make it closer to real life, why not change the software to allow playing the wrong suit, or even play when it is not your turn? How about allowing to play 2-3 cards at the same time? :(

The next version of BBO will allow you to spread marmalade on you cards so that they stick together and the next players who get them will see only 11 or 12 cards on the screen.

[Trumpace]

If you want to make it closer to real life, why not change the software to allow playing the wrong suit, or even play when it is not your turn? How about allowing to play 2-3 cards at the same time?  :(

The next version of BBO will allow you to spread marmalade on you cards so that they stick together and the next players who get them will see only 11 or 12 cards on the screen.

:D

 

Perhaps it will be a good April fool's day prank for BBO to pull off... They even have enough time to program it in :P

[Jim_Dandy]

Nowhere in bridge laws do I see undo for an exposed card. The undo for play should be eliminated because it is there even if director states undo for bids only.

Allow 5 second for an undo bid request if partner not bid and no need for delay acceptnce

At very least have the two options (bids and play)separate for directors.

ACBL Law:

A. Unintended Call

1. Until his partner makes a call, a player may substitute

his intended call for an unintended call but

only if he does so, or attempts to do so, without

pause for thought. The second (intended) call

stands and is subject to the appropriate law.

2. No substitution of call may be made when his

partner has made a subsequent call.

3. If the auction ends before it reaches the player’s

partner, no substitution may occur after the end

of the auction period (see Law 22).

4. If a substitution is allowed, the LHO may withdraw

any call he made over the first call. Information

from the withdrawn call is authorized

only to his side. There is no further rectification.

[jillybean]

If you don't want to allow undos, fine. But I know that I feel really stupid when I were to lead and ace from my hand, and misclick on the king from dummy so I go down in a cold grand that we relayed up to. Please, for the good of everyone, keep it the way it is, it's not mandatory you allow undos, although when I'm playing with friends we have undos in all sorts of weird situations... IMO it's completely absurd to ban them.

I missed this the first time around. Playing the King from dummy when you intended to play the Ace from your hand is not a mechanical misclick, its a brain fart. You wouldn't get an "undo" at the table and if it is a serious game, you shouldn't get one online either. Of course if it is the midnight TG after an evening at the pub, undo's should be mandatory.

[jeffford76]

Undo's should be allowed only during the bidding process. This mimics the silent bid of pulling a card out of the box and declaring mechanical mistake, replacing the bidding cards, and the pulling our the correct bid. Say you pulled a 2 of clubs and meant to pull the 3 of clubs. One just states the mechanical mistake, puts the 2 of clubs back into the bidding box and then pulls out the 3 of clubs. No foul was committed.

 

I suggest that the software be changed that once the bidding is over there are no more UNDO'S for that hand. This is because in live bridge if a card is drawn from a hand and is seen by any player, the card must be immediately played or it sits on the table and is played whenever the first opportunity occurs.

 

A little more work is required, but it sounds like it would be helpful to have "bidding undos allowed" and "play undos allowed" as separate settings for the table host.

[Alibar10]

My experience is some of my partners disagree if I deny an undo. They want ops to know I was the one denying. Yesterday, when I denied an undo, my partner began a barrage of unsults to me, that finally he was booted, whereupon, he continued by sending private insults. Similar situations have happened in past weeks. Seems to me It's forcing me to allow any and all undos just to keep the table in good humor.

[barmar]

Most people consider MBC play very informal. Keeping the game friendly is probably more important in these games than strict adherence to the laws. If the table host wants a more formal game, he could have disabled undos.

 

If you want to set the tone, start your own table and set the table parameters as you wish.

[Zelandakh]

Seems to me It's forcing me to allow any and all undos just to keep the table in good humor.

It is perfectly reasonable to ask your opponent if they made a misclick before granting an undo. If I find out after allowing an undo that it was a change of mind rather than a misclick then I mark their profile not to allow any further undos from them should they somehow find their way onto the same table in the future. This is regardless of whether the undo was for bidding or card play. If I feel there is too much UI after one (or more) undos to complete the board reasonably then I will also ask for a redeal as the simplest compromise. Some players dislike this too, especially if they were sitting on a good hand.

[Alibar10]

It is perfectly reasonable to ask your opponent if they made a misclick before granting an undo. If I find out after allowing an undo that it was a change of mind rather than a misclick then I mark their profile not to allow any further undos from them should they somehow find their way onto the same table in the future. This is regardless of whether the undo was for bidding or card play. If I feel there is too much UI after one (or more) undos to complete the board reasonably then I will also ask for a redeal as the simplest compromise. Some players dislike this too, especially if they were sitting on a good hand.

 

Thanks for your helpful response. Much appreciated.