bb79 Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 [hv=n=sakj6hak54dq86ca8&s=st98742hqdt7ct974]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv] South is playing 4♠ after west showed weak hand with hearts. Lead is a ♦, east wins J. At trick two east plays ♦A, west discards a ♥. Third trick east plays ♦K. What do you play from your hand? 3 of 4 declarers on vugraph erred here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 ...3 of 4 declarers on vugraph erred here. Who?!? I want names. This is too easy. Oh -- wait. B/I. Wait again -- B/I should get this, but who as B/I was on vugraph? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill1157 Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 pitch a club... Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantumcat Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 The trick will likely be won by the opposition no matter what you do, either the high card itself if you discard or a trump if you try to ruff. Even if LHO doesn't have the QS and the TS wins, you will still lose a club (AK hearts gets rid of 2 clubs, but you still have 2 in your hand opp Ax in dummy) so you may as well throw a club on a trick you are destined to lose anyway. Dummy won't have anymore diamonds left so RHO can't keep playing diamonds trying to make his partner's Q or QX of trumps make a trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Funny that this is in the BI when 3 supposedly world class declarers muffed this hand. But it clearly does unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill1157 Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Funny that this is in the BI when 3 supposedly world class declarers muffed this hand. But it clearly does unfortunately. of course, i can get this as a problem, but at the table...?Also, experts do make mistakes, maybe it was the hand before a smoke break.. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vuroth Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Agreed. I play too fast all the time. I would do far better to play slowly and look for "problems" in the play of the hand.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Also, experts do make mistakes, maybe it was the hand before a smoke break.. After you go down and are a smoker, this WOULD be the time to take a smoke break, I guess. I don't have names but since it was 4 tables, my guess would be the semi-finals of the USBF women qualifying... I guess tiredness was a factor. Thanks for sharing this one, bb79! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoi5 Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 This is the kind of play that is not easy to spot at the table if you play too fast (unless you're a GREAT player). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Funny that this is in the BI when 3 supposedly world class declarers muffed this hand. But it clearly does unfortunately. of course, i can get this as a problem, but at the table...?Also, experts do make mistakes, maybe it was the hand before a smoke break.. Bill This is a great hand for B/I as it is from actual play and as a good practical example of throwing a loser on a possible (ie West has the queen and overruffs dummy) loser at no cost since at most 10 tricks can be made even if there is no overruff since then the ♣ has to be lost. Declarer should be anticipating this problem when she sees the opening lead and most certainly when the ♦ are continued. As for W/C commentators taking their eyes off the ball here, this is no surprise as commentating online is often quite difficult when compared to sitting at the table playing the hand at their own pace and being able to put distractions out of mind. I am often surprised at how much our commentators miss or get wrong, but they often feel rushed to say something rather than be mute. It most certainly is not an easy task. I've commentated on lots of backgammon matches online over the years, some very serious, some somewhat less so, as well as commenting in person a few times for the finals of major tourneys. Trust me when I say that also isn't easy. Once again, IMHO this is a great hand for B/I as I think much of what is posted here for defensive or declarer play problems is quite difficult. This isn't difficult, as long as you are alert enough to see it. Seeing it is the problem ATB. Just my opinion .. neilkaz .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickRW Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Funny that this is in the BI when 3 supposedly world class declarers muffed this hand. But it clearly does unfortunately. There is a big difference between being able to solve these sorts of problems in a setting like this forum and being able to do it with any degree of consistency at the table. This difference is. perhaps, the single biggest difference between a really good player and an average one. Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanp Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 What kind of tournament was this from? Of course experts make mistakes too, bad ones even, but this is the kind of hand where you are sort of forced to think and when you think you cannot go wrong. I would be surprised if several good players missed this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bb79 Posted May 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 What kind of tournament was this from? Of course experts make mistakes too, bad ones even, but this is the kind of hand where you are sort of forced to think and when you think you cannot go wrong. I would be surprised if several good players missed this. This was from uswbc venice cup trials, Third hand in the 2nd section of Finals&Playoffs. The technique is called "loser on loser", I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanp Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 In that case I won't comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 In that case I won't comment. Chicken! Letting it out sometimes helps, you know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 In that case I won't comment. Too bad, I was hoping for a sexist joke :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 In that case I won't comment. Too bad, I was hoping for a sexist joke :D To not comment, out of fear, kind of is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 just not funny this joke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickRW Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 In that case I won't comment. Too bad, I was hoping for a sexist joke :D Women! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanp Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Sorry to disappoint you Helene. Unfortunately I know some female bridge players that are both very good and very serious about the game, it makes such jokes less funny. I didn't see a whole lot of the uswbc vugraph. I would expect many of those players to get this hand routinely right though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 http://web04.bridgebase.com/vug/13_12_2009...02%20of%206.lin Was looking for the hand :ph34r: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Very proud moment. I just covered up the E-W hands on the vugraph and had my wife play the hand. She played the diamond 6 on the opening lead, played low again on round two, and then one round three said... "Well. I still have to lose a club, so I might as well ruff. Wait a minute..." Then, a small club, after an excruciating but exciting delay while she thought. :) :) :) :) :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOL Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 LOL at thinking getting this right when it's posted as a problem means you will always get it right at the table. I'm sure that all of the people who got this wrong at the table would also have gotten it right on paper. The reason many of the forumers who are good analysts and get all the problems right all the time don't win everything is not because they suck at bidding, it's because people make mistakes in real time competition where most of the routine looking hands are actually routine. A lot of you who mock people for getting a hand like this wrong would also get it wrong after playing for a week straight and not having a wire on this board that it is a textbook hand, or you would make some other stupid mistake that you would not have thought yourself capable of, and would never make in isolation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwery_hi Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 LOL at thinking getting this right when it's posted as a problem means you will always get it right at the table. I'm sure that all of the people who got this wrong at the table would also have gotten it right on paper. The reason many of the forumers who are good analysts and get all the problems right all the time don't win everything is not because they suck at bidding, it's because people make mistakes in real time competition where most of the routine looking hands are actually routine. A lot of you who mock people for getting a hand like this wrong would also get it wrong after playing for a week straight and not having a wire on this board that it is a textbook hand, or you would make some other stupid mistake that you would not have thought yourself capable of, and would never make in isolation. That depends on how good they are at pattern recognition. Routine hands which are part of a seen before pattern would be difficult to get wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 it's because people make mistakes in real time competition where most of the routine looking hands are actually routine. That depends on how good they are at pattern recognition. Routine hands which are part of a seen before pattern would be difficult to get wrong. This is not true. I remember when a friend of mine, a bridge pro told the story, where he forgot the answers to RCKB in his partnership with his standard partner during an European Championship. Okay, this was an extreme example, but when you follow the vuegraph of any big tournement, you will see that this best bridge is played in the prelimaries, not in the final. So it is amazing what "horrible" mistakes you can make when you are tired or just lost the focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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