Bidding with the minors

[awm]

IMPs, all red. You hold:

 

♠-

♥Jx

♦Axxxxx

♣AKQTx

 

After two passes, RHO opens 1♠. What is your plan?

[CSGibson]

2N, then bid 3 diamonds over 3 clubs to show longer diamonds, and 3 ♠ over 3 diamonds (I've agreed with my partners that I'm showing my shorter suit bidding this way)

[Fluffy]

If I bid 2NT I am not making any plans at the 3 level because it ain't gonna happen.

 

I think 4NT is clearly right, we have an "easy" double at the 5 level wich suggests our hand type if its needed. And you never get rich winning 4♦ anyway.

[whereagles]

I'll bid 2NT. If opps bid 4M, I'll bid to the 5 level if necessary. If they don't, I'll settle for the 4 level.

 

Gonzalo's plan of 4NT is nice and very descriptive, but I'm not so sure we should drive to the 5 level so quickly. Pard may have a 5422 with 7-8 hcp in the majors and the 3 or 4 level might be the limit.

[Codo]

4 NT Gonzalo rules

[mtvesuvius]

4NT didn't occur to me, but I love it! B)

 

4NT it is...

[jdonn]

I hate 4NT. Everyone wants to play 5♣ when partner is 2-2 in the minors? 2NT is plenty for now, the auction doesn't have to be over after that.

[P_Marlowe]

4NT.

 

The question is, do I play to sell out to 4S?

If the answer is No (my answer), I would bid 4NT at

once.

 

A possible idea is to bid 2NT followed by 4NT over

4S, which should show longer diamonds (?!), at least

if partner was not able to show a preference until than.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Phil]

2N, then bid 3 diamonds over 3 clubs to show longer diamonds, and 3 ♠ over 3 diamonds (I've agreed with my partners that I'm showing my shorter suit bidding this way)

This is a good plan.

[aguahombre]

I hate 4NT. Everyone wants to play 5♣ when partner is 2-2 in the minors? 2NT is plenty for now, the auction doesn't have to be over after that.

the first two sentences echo my feelings. but my conclusion about what to do is different. If I intend to bid again anyway at a high level, why not overcall 2d now and then bid the clubs? At least i show great playing strength and probably longer diamonds, but not outside the overcall range. Preemptive calls have their effect on 3 players, not just two.

[Fluffy]

I hate 4NT. Everyone wants to play 5♣ when partner is 2-2 in the minors? 2NT is plenty for now, the auction doesn't have to be over after that.

Not over, but LHO had 3 kind of free spade raises wich I don't like.

 

Even in the awful scenario of a 2-2 minor from partner, he is likelly having a diamond honnor, and picking the right suit.

[gwnn]

jdonn and whereagles agreed, this thread can be closed now (and stickied?)

[mike777]

IMPs, all red. You hold:

 

♠-

♥Jx

♦Axxxxx

♣AKQTx

 

After two passes, RHO opens 1♠. What is your plan?

2d for now.

[Cascade]

I hate 4NT. Everyone wants to play 5♣ when partner is 2-2 in the minors? 2NT is plenty for now, the auction doesn't have to be over after that.

Not over, but LHO had 3 kind of free spade raises wich I don't like.

 

Even in the awful scenario of a 2-2 minor from partner, he is likelly having a diamond honnor, and picking the right suit.

I am not sure about that.

 

I tend to pick the lower suit if I have to choose in a similar situation. With 6=5 partner might have chosen to bid diamonds then clubs but that option is less attractive with 5=6 where the unusual NT overcall is more likely.

[CSGibson]

I hate 4NT. Everyone wants to play 5♣ when partner is 2-2 in the minors? 2NT is plenty for now, the auction doesn't have to be over after that.

Not over, but LHO had 3 kind of free spade raises wich I don't like.

 

Even in the awful scenario of a 2-2 minor from partner, he is likelly having a diamond honnor, and picking the right suit.

I am not sure about that.

 

I tend to pick the lower suit if I have to choose in a similar situation. With 6=5 partner might have chosen to bid diamonds then clubs but that option is less attractive with 5=6 where the unusual NT overcall is more likely.

My partner and I have developed a rule for our two suiters: Partner should bid their singletons up the line. This rule was developed after going for 1100 twice in Michaels situations where partner was 1-1 in my two suits, and partner gave preference to his better singleton, the higher ranking suit in each case.

[whereagles]

jdonn and whereagles agreed, this thread can be closed now (and stickied?)

LOL

 

(for once a genuine lol... LOL)

[mcphee]

I have a nice hand and the point for me is I can very easily find a partner with quite an unsuitable hand for minors. To that end however I am bidding 2N and see what develops. If they reach 4S with no noise from partner I can find dble. No idea how this plan will work out, but I like my opening lead a lot should partner elect to pass a dble of 4S.

 

I like to play 4N and 4S as minors directly with 4S showing some interest in slam and I do not have the 4S bid for sure, forcing our side to bid 5 at once may work out horrible on many hands, namely missing a possible slam, penalty or taking a minus from a plus score position.

 

It is doubtful to me this is going to be a simple un-active auction, I intend to make some noise and see no reason to blast.

[skjaeran]

2NT for now, not planning to pass next time.

[awm]

Here's what actually happened on the hand.

 

[hv=d=w&v=b&n=sajxxhqxxdqjtcxxx&w=sxxxxhxxxxdkxxcxx&e=skqtxxhaktxdxcjxx&s=shjxdaxxxxxcakqtx]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

At my table, I overcalled 2NT (seems to be the majority vote). West decided not to raise spades to the three-level on his 3-count, north bid 3♦ which east passed. I chose to raise to 5♦ (perhaps some other call is better) and north bid 6♦. This was two down when east (on lead) cashed two top hearts and we eventually had to lose the king of diamonds.

 

While several dubious calls were made on the auction, the plan of overcalling 2NT and then bidding on seems destined to reach 5♦ by north, which will always fail.

 

At the other table, the person holding the south hand overcalled 2♦. West raised to 2♠ and after several more calls south became declarer in 5♦X. However, west was on lead this time and lead a spade (the partnership suit) rather than a heart from four small. South scored up 750.

 

Dunno if this is even worth seriously considering as a factor, but it's often the case that when most of the opponents' values are in one hand, that hand has an easier time figuring out what to lead than partner does.

[Fluffy]

Dunno if this is even worth seriously considering as a factor, but it's often the case that when most of the opponents' values are in one hand, that hand has an easier time figuring out what to lead than partner does.

In general he often knows what he wishes partner to lead, but he also often cannot lead it himself.

 

I have been taught to force the bidding to make the guy with an opening to be forced on lead at trick 1 on games and partscores.

 

But the basis of what I say is for balanced and semi balanced hands. On double fit hands you might be correct

[gwnn]

N's 6♦ is nuts I think.

[Cascade]

I think we can easily construct a hand where the 2♦ overcall wrong sides the hand e.g. swap the ♥K and ♥Q and the defense to have any chance need west on lead - sure we might not get the heart lead from west but the problem is still there in theory.

 

So I think it is just lucky or unlucky that this contract happens to make from one side but not the other.

 

6♦ seems like a crazy bid. Or maybe 3♦ is the crazy bid. Or maybe both. If you are worth 6♦ later without partner inviting then we are not worth 3♦ the first time.

[jdonn]

There is no doubt that combination of 3♦ and 6♦ must be crazy. Take your pick which, or both.

[655321]

Minors are well known to be optimistic bidders, so it is no surprise that we got too high.

[gnasher]

The obvious auction is (1♠) 2NT-3♦; 4♦-5♦. You want to be in this - it's just unlucky that opener doesn't have ♦K.

 

As for playing it from South to get the ignorant hand on lead, imagine that North had Axxx Kxx QJ10 xxx. Now which way would you like to play it?