cyc0002002 Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 1C - 1S - ?♠x ♥Kxxx ♦AQ ♣KQJxxx It is quite close Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbforster Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 i like my club suit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 x KQxx Ax KQJxxx is definitely a yes. The given hand I believe should not reverse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 1C - 1S - ?♠x ♥Kxxx ♦AQ ♣KQJxxx It is quite close no, it's not quite close...this is not worth a reverse, at least not in NA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyc0002002 Posted May 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 1C - 1S - ?♠x ♥Kxxx ♦AQ ♣KQJxxx It is quite close no, it's not quite close...this is not worth a reverse, at least not in NA ;) ... Does it make it closer if we are not playing reverse as gf? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 Yes, but I am german. It is also a question, what are the alternatives, andwhat does a reverse promise (for me a reverse isonly a 1 round force). If you dont reverse, you have to bid either 2C or 3C, but if you bid 3C ... than basically you make a reverse,for me 2C does not feel right, so I go with the reverse. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skjaeran Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 1C - 1S - ?♠x ♥Kxxx ♦AQ ♣KQJxxx It is quite close no, it's not quite close...this is not worth a reverse, at least not in NA ;) ... Does it make it closer if we are not playing reverse as gf? Huh, a simple reverse isn't GF in any standard system I know. Jump reverses on the other hand... I don't really like the heart suit, and this isn't very close to a reverse, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtvesuvius Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 Nope. Move the Q♦ into ♥, and now it is a reverse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 Nope. Move the Q♦ into ♥, and now it is a reverse. Yes..that I'd consider to be a minimal reverse. But with the given hand, just 2♣ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickRW Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 no, it's not quite close...this is not worth a reverse, at least not in NA Even in Britain, where strong twos are common and one can contemplate reversing a little light compared to NA methods, this still looks a little on the too light side to me. As others have suggested, move the ♦Q to the heart suit makes a lot of difference. Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOL Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 The thought of rebidding 2C with this hand makes me sick. If you want to bid 3C then you might as well bid 2H along the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 It's certainly true that 3♣ is ridiculous, although I don't see that anyone has bid that unless I'm missing someone's post. A hand good enough for that is good enough for 2♥ anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 The given hand is just about right for an old Romex style non-forcing reverse. I haven't played Romex in many years, but the way I learned this, the reverse itself was non-forcing. I don't think you could reverse on a suit of Kxxx, though. In any event, we are not discussing Romex. In Standard, this is not a reverse. One is allowed to have something in reserve for one's bids. This is a nice, near maximum 2♣ rebid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkDean Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 The thought of rebidding 2C with this hand makes me sick. If you want to bid 3C then you might as well bid 2H along the way. Justin, can you spell this out a bit better for me? In another thread, you said that you thought 1D then 3D was a huge overbid with JxJxAKQxxxAxx Now, you say you think if partner reponds in our stiff that bidding 2C makes you sick withx KxxxAQKQJxxx Do you think the extra shape is what makes this hand that much better, or is there something about the honor structure as well? To me, with the likely seven tricks, the first hand is pretty good, so I was surprised to see the difference in sentiment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 I'd reverse on this hand. The sixth club is a huge card. For example, this hand may well be better than: ♠x ♥KQxx ♦AQx ♣KQJxx which everyone (except maybe mikeh) considers a reverse. I actually think Mark Dean's hand is a 3♦ rebid too. According to K+R evaluation both of these evaluate at 17. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanp Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 I would have bid 2H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 I like wimpish reverses, so definitely a no-brainer 2♥ for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOL Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 The thought of rebidding 2C with this hand makes me sick. If you want to bid 3C then you might as well bid 2H along the way. Justin, can you spell this out a bit better for me? uhh the second hand is better? Do you really compare 6322 with Jx Jx to the other hand? I don't get it. How about this...if partner passes 2m which hand are you more scared to have? Surely it's the hand with four hearts where you could easily have a fit that you won't find. Lastly, I hope I mentioned that I would always open 1N with the first hand. It's a good hand for NT, it's not a 1D 3D bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkDean Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 The thought of rebidding 2C with this hand makes me sick. If you want to bid 3C then you might as well bid 2H along the way. Justin, can you spell this out a bit better for me? uhh the second hand is better? Do you really compare 6322 with Jx Jx to the other hand? I don't get it. How about this...if partner passes 2m which hand are you more scared to have? Surely it's the hand with four hearts where you could easily have a fit that you won't find. Lastly, I hope I mentioned that I would always open 1N with the first hand. It's a good hand for NT, it's not a 1D 3D bid. I would be pretty scared with either hand, just afraid I missed a different game. With the hand in the OP I would be more afraid with diamonds, but in clubs, I expect that responder can bid hearts NF some of the time we have game. You did say you would open 1NT with the 2263 hand in the other thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 The modern trend is for opener's jump rebid to suggest a hand that has a lot of playing strength with that suit as trump. That was not part of the definition that you would find in, for example, a Goren textbook - something like "16-18 HCP with a 6-card suit". I suspect most American experts these days would rebid 2NT (instead of the 3H that Goren would probably suggest) with this 17-count: KxAJxxxxAQxKx and rebid 3H (instead of the 2H that Goren would probably suggest) with this 13-count: xKQ109xxxAxxAx Some might describe both of these as "5-loser hands", but the second hand is obviously more suit-oriented - it rates to win more tricks with hearts as trump. Nowadays, at least in USA expert circles, one of the messages that the jump rebid tends to convey is "I have a suit-oriented hand". By the way, I would have reversed with the hand in question. Fred GitelmanBridge Base Inc.www.bridgebase.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 hum.. that's interesting. Seems like the US is heading strongly into the "shape first" philosophy (most 2/1 versions are like this too). Wonder how you guys are going to sort out the level afterwards ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOL Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 hum.. that's interesting. Seems like the US is heading strongly into the "shape first" philosophy (most 2/1 versions are like this too). Wonder how you guys are going to sort out the level afterwards ;) LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 "Nowadays, at least in USA expert circles, one of the messages that the jump rebid tends to convey is "I have a suit-oriented hand"." Very helpful comment regarding jump rebids and with examples, ty. Not stated but on this deal, given the poll results, there seems to a wide difference of opinion on which 6-4 hands should be upgrade to a reverse and which should not be. Here is hoping for more comments. (btw as a nonexpert i voted 2c rebid.) 1C - 1S - ?♠x ♥Kxxx ♦AQ ♣KQJxxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 The thought of rebidding 2C with this hand makes me sick. If you want to bid 3C then you might as well bid 2H along the way. Yes these are my thoughts. The ♦Q is questionable, but the 6th club more than offsets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Not good enough to reverse. This is a 2C rebid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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