j_with_a_B Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 I have been a TD at BBO and have done at least a thousand tournies since then Usually 2-3 a day sometimes as many as 6-7. I am sure I did none at all a half dozen days since then. I don't create more than one or two a day as each time I have asked that number to be increased to 2 even, the request has been denied. I still must finish one before I can create the next one. I have been trying to play recently with the new web based software and just started to try to TD with it. A couple thinks I have noticed... One is that when a tourney is created with the new software, and I enter the time in the usual fashion (ie. how long until it starts...) when I check the tourney the time appears to be in PT (Pacific Time), but there is no mention that that is the case. Many TD's work on ET (Eastern Time) or don't worry about it at all. I had to go back to the old software to check I had had the time entered correctly. I often have made that mistake, and always check the time well before the tourney starts, but when I checked it in the new software I was confused... The second thing was that I created a Tourney with the new software, and saw no way to set a limit on the number of pairs allowed. (I may have assumed the default was the same 120, and didn't look further) When I do it with the old software, unless I say anything to the contrary, the limit is 120. With the new software, I set up the tourney and later when I checked to my horror it was only 40 pairs! I found the 120 nice, if I am there on time there is time to add more pairs. But I would either need to come extra early, and still need to use the old software to change it. Two things from that: please set the default to 120 as before and secondly how do I change the number of pairs allowed to join after the tourney has been set? I admit, I didn't try everything possible and have not gone back to look as to how to do it with the new software. Usually the 120 works well for me, because I am usually there in lots of time to decide to raise it higher or not, depending on whether I know I am working alone or have enough help to allow me to go further. Most tourneys I set up or TD in are either 80 - 200+ pairs (40 - 100+ tables). It would be a shame if we had to continue using the older software just to make up for problems in the new version, but for now it seems necessary. I will be frank, I had to play several times with the new software to get used to it at all. I was lucky to have tolerant partners to ask to play with. That said, some of the new features in the new version I find very appealing as a TD. Especially: 1. The Shared TD Table Calls: I usually chat with other TD's and with the old software, whether I am helping or the reverse, (I am Host and they are helping me), sometimes one of us is run off their feet while the other thinks all went very smoothly. So, I like the idea of seeing other outstanding calls not met, yet! 2. The listing of all the current and future tourneys that a TD is listed as directing in. That makes it very easy to see if I am obligated for one or not, without having to go check every possibility one at a time, with the chance of missing some. 3. The ability to cut and paste chat and final results! That can save a lot of typing when people ask a question and I need to clarify what they meant, and to do a proper ending to a tourney announcing winners is great! My eyes are old, and I have to look hard at names like ZxyWztwS or 73907524 to get them right! Cutting and pasting them is a Great Help, especially as it needs to be done quickly. I was reluctant to embrace the new software at the start. I didn't like it. My fear was that many others wouldn't either and that if the old software was discontinued and no longer supported, then BBO would loose half the regular crowd. I realized, as a TD, that many of the things I was telling people about how to do what was needed were based on the old software, and that many newcomers were using the new web version. I had to use it myself just to be able to tell them where the Substitute Button was. ;) I still don't know where the Call Director button is, or how a player can choose their own subs. I used to climb tall ladders, and just like the Golden Rule in mountain climbing, wastaught not to give up one safety line until the next one was secure. I hope you don't rush the new software, but keep working on it until it is perfected before abandoning the old. Johnj_with_a_BBridge For Fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 Hi John, Thanks for your service as a TD, for trying out the web-client, and for offering your feedback. You seem to have 3 main areas of concern: 1) The starting time/date is expressed in whatever time zone you happen to live in (ie it is only Pacific Time if you live in the Pacific Time Zone). We thought this would be more helpful for most TDs than converting to EST (or CET which is used by many European TDs). I am not sure why this is a problem for you versus the way it works in the Windows client - unless I am forgetting something the Windows client only expresses starting times in terms of days/hours/minutes until start. The web-client also shows starting time/date in these terms (ie there are 2 formats shown) but only 1 format is shown in the Windows client. 2) To change the maximum number of entries, click the "Entries" tab at the top of the dialog box that is used for creating tournaments. You should be able to figure it out from there. If you have not done so already, you might want to try looking at the contents of all of the tabs in this dialog box - there may be some other options and settings available that you have not discovered yet. 3) We have no plans to retire the Windows client. Maybe our plans in this area will change one day, but I would be surprised if they were to change within the next couple of years. Similarly, as long as people are using the Windows client, I expect we will continue to support it (in that users who contact our support department will receive help). Also if (for example) we create new kinds of tournaments or improvements to GIB in the future (both very likely) we will do whatever we can to make sure our Windows users can access such things (and very likely we will succeed). However, I think it is unlikely that you will see any major functional or interface improvements in the Windows client. Any new versions that are released in the future rate to be mostly about bug fixes. I hope this helps to clarify some of the areas you were unsure about. Let me know if you have any further questions. Fred GitelmanBridge Base Inc.www.bridgebase.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_with_a_B Posted May 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 Sorry Fred, but point 1 was my fault entirely, not a concern. A couple days ago I had a total hard drive crash and had to reinstall my OS completely. I lost everything not currently backed up, like all that I use all the time. :rolleyes: My fault! I had not noticed that the default re-installation put me on Pacific time until I noticed my clock was wrong... Doh!!! Once I corrected it the rest of my T's fell into line as for my real timezone. Point 2: I had simply assumed some of the defaults were the same as for the other software. I have looked further and see now how all the ones I had any problem with are available to me in the new s/w to change, as I want. I had not explored far enough then. However, I would recommend the defaults being the same in both versions so that TD's not familiar with the new stuff don't fall into the same traps. It would raise the learning curve for them all. Point 3: I am reassured, as many other TD's will be, that this is not the next new thing they need to handle. From my point of view, I have very often had queries, or was giving advice to folks as to how to do things, and it became apparent to me very quickly that they were not using the same old software I was. This prompted me to try it a bit myself and see why advice I gave made no sense to them. Many new users/members at BBO at using the new s/w and we need to be aware of that, as TD's. Telling someone to sub by clicking on the Substitutes Button immediately above the chat screen is not valid and leads to confusion and frustration on their part. I still don't know where the "Call TD" button is, but often ask folks to press it if they need me. :P I tried again tonight to use it and found a very big problem. I went to a table to sort out a slow player, and when I left, I found I had no way to chat at the tourney at large. I had to bail out and load the old software to continue. The usual options to the left of the chat box were not there. I could go to other tables and they were there for me to use, but when I returned to the lobby they were not. I plan to keep using the new s/w as it improves, but feel reassured that I can always get back into the old as quick as it takes to sign in. I must repeat, I LIKE the new software for many of the features that are there for TD's. The which T's am I signed up for at a glance is a great time saver! The shared TD calls is also wonderful! And the cut and paste capability is great for an older guy with bad eyes!:D Thank you Fred for listening to my observations, and I plan to continue to get familiar with the new software as I can. But, I must say, as far as using it all the time as a TD, I am not ready yet to go that far. I am sure all the bugs will get ironed out eventually, and realize that you folks won't know about them unless someone uses it enough to find them. I worked many years in a small company that wrote custom software. I was never a programmer, but it fell on me to be a software tester and bug seeker, and to write the user manuals. (Or proof read what the programmers thought were even close, lol) Good luck with the project! I love BBO now and anything that makes it better is worthy of support! John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 Thanks for your followup post, John. I think the reason we changed the default from 120 to 40 is that big tournaments put a strain on the system. However, you make a good point and obviously this is not an ideal way to deal with the strain issue. I will discuss with Uday. In the web-client the Call TD button is labeled "Director!" and it resides near the left of the row of buttons below the table (the same row that contains things like Claim, Undo, etc). About chat->tournament... If you are at a table of a tournament you are TDing, you should see a chat->tournament button. If the tournament has not started yet you should see a chat->tournament button if you are looking at the registration screen of the tournament in question (you don't have to be a TD to see this button). Regardless of where you are, there is a nice way for TDs to chat->tournament through the dropdown menu of the tournament in question in either the Running Tournaments list or the Pending Tournaments list. What is nice about this method is that a separate window will appear that makes it easy for you to send multiple chat->tournament messages to the same tournament. Try it! In the next version TDs will be able to access chat->tournament in the usual way if you are looking at the list of tables for a tournament you are TDing. You can't do this in the most recent release version. There will be some other TD-related improvements in the next version as well. Your feedback is very helpful - thanks. It is hard for us to know what areas need work unless real TDs let us know how the software works in practice :) Fred GitelmanBridge Base Inc.www.bridgebase.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uday Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 I think the reason we changed the default from 120 to 40 is that big tournaments put a strain on the system. The reason we changed the default is that I want the TD to deliberately pick the larger number, as opposed to letting a (potentially newbie) TD spawn a 30 table tourney without meaning to do so. U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_with_a_B Posted May 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Thank you both for the replies. I see now the justification for the 40 pair default. It is likely just as well to leave it like that. :) And it is easy to change as needed. So far most of what I have encountered is due to my lack of familiarity with it. It does take some getting used to. I was prompted to try it when I realized my advice to some new players using it made no sense to them at all. I can see why now! John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_with_a_B Posted May 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 From Fred: "Regardless of where you are, there is a nice way for TDs to chat->tournament through the dropdown menu of the tournament in question in either the Running Tournaments list or the Pending Tournaments list. What is nice about this method is that a separate window will appear that makes it easy for you to send multiple chat->tournament messages to the same tournament. Try it!" OK I did try to find it but saw no dropdown menu. Is that something to enable in Options? Or, more likely, I am not looking at the right spot. I couldn't produce a separate chat window to the T no matter what I tried. One minor thing I noticed a couple times now: While waiting for a T to start, I was able to chat fine and run a few start-up macros... Welcome and Sign up soon... etc. The moment the T began, I was dumped out of the T to the Tourney Listings with Pending T's highlighted. I had to quickly choose Current T's, select the right one, and join it again. Not a big deal, but it would be much nicer to simply join the Tourney that I was waiting for in the lobby and proceed from there. At a busier time of the day it may be harder to select the right one quickly. It was merely a minor inconvenience, but would be great if people were just brought into the room, whether TD or not. Some players may be waiting to sign up as a sub for that event, and have that happen. Then they may end up in another Tourney and are lost. I mentioned in a comment in the other thread about the chat line where text is entered to the Tourney. How great it would be if the font size was set to be the same as the chat above! I have poor eyes, and an almost adequate monitor, so have to set most things to a large font. My typing skills are hindered by my fat fingers, so I make many mistakes when I try to type in a hurry. I need to proof read almost everything and the small font usually means I need to use the magnifier to avoid making myself seem to be the idiot I often am. Another thing I have noticed, that is not a big problem for me and easily solved, is that when I ran any large macros in Keyboard Express, the newlines where not recognized. The windows client handles that well; a new line is assumed and things come out fine. In the web client, all is run on one line, unless the code word <ENTER> is inserted at the end of the line, or at the start of the next one. Again, this is not a big deal, but means anyone using KBE must edit all the macros longer than a single line. It would be great if that could be fixed to avoid that, but there IS a workaround, so, it is not a show stopper. I was chatting to another TD, however, about it and she said that she uses Key Text and has been warned by a "Yellow" that it will not work at all in the web client. I don't know exactly why, but it may be a related problem. Many TD's have elaborate text art macros that they use a lot, and would find it a lot of work to either edit them all, or have to abandon them completely. I am a stubborn fella and refuse to quit trying, but again, tonight, I bailed out and reverted to the Windows client after a short time. I could not find the dropdown menu you mentioned, but usually that means it is so obvious I am simply not looking in the right place. To have to remain at a table to chat to the T was very awkward, and realize that that will soon be changed. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_with_a_B Posted May 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Ok! Sooo sorry I found it! Another dear TD friend showed me where... I never saw it because I kept the pull downs so cramped up that the last field never shown. I have yet to try to use it, but at least I now know how now. In order to keep my right hand window small enough to see the play well, I kept it so small I couldn't see the last field, and had now way to see it was there until I was told it was there. I merely assumed all the available columns were showing, as scrunched up as they were... Perhaps a ... or a > there would point that out? I have yet to try it. But it took a braver TD than me that is also trying the software longer than me to point it out with a screen shot. Thank you AnnC8 for your help! I shall make my cards smaller and that column wider and should be able to see it better! For a TD, this is not likely a thing that always needs to be there at all times, but merely on demand. If that were just a pop-up window in some form conjureable as needed, and the dimensions of the chat and tables remained constant, that would be great! This may be moot if we have chat to TD from the tourney room anyway, but I am keen to see how Fred's recommendation of the feature works in practice. I have not had the chance. I am in my mid 50's, and I know of only a few regular TD's that I work with younger than I am, but may I suggest, pop-up screens may be a better way to go for some things, over static screens or pull down menus? Fast, accessible and quickly dismissed. I look forward to trying it out. I am Sure you are on to a good thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 I am in my mid 50's, and I know of only a few regular TD's that I work with younger than I am, but may I suggest, pop-up screens may be a better way to go for some things, over static screens or pull down menus? Fast, accessible and quickly dismissed.At the very bottom of the Director tab (right beside the "Create tournament" button) there is a button labeled "Popup". If you click that button, the TD Control Panel will appear in a popup window which you can move and resize as you see fit. If you subsequently close that window or click the "Director" button at the top right of your screen, the TD Control Panel will revert to its usual location. At the end of your BBO session, if you click "Log off" (instead of just closing your browser window), the software will remember, among other things, your preferences for how and where you want to the TD Control Panel to appear. Note also that you do not need to leave a lot of space for the column that contain the buttons that open the drop down menus. As you as you can see the arrows on these buttons, you can make the menus appear. Fred GitelmanBridge Base Inc.www.bridgebase.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old York Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Hotkeys and shortcuts like Ctrl+T are very helpful in the windows client. As bbo flash evolves, most of these features will soon be added. Maybe F6 will be reinstated with other functions too? Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_with_a_B Posted May 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 Thank again for the replies. I did find the button associated with the Director button, as well as the pop up button. However, I must be missing something yet. Using either of them I failed to find the method to Chat to the Tournament, nor have I seen the way to show the Tournament Status. I still feel they must be staring me in the face, but I could not find them. I did notice a couple other things, however. One screen that would be great to have an automatic refresh on would be the screen showing the players at the tables. I was attempting to replace a pair of Sitouts tonight, and received the message that they were NOT replaced. Often players on the sub list decline that at the start because they are reluctant to play with a player they have no info about. So I persisted. Then I realized that they may have been already replaced and pressed the refresh button and, sure enough, they had been. That screen would be a very nice one to have updated in real time. The other thing I noticed was very strange. I set up a tourney in the web client as I have a few times before. I really like the feature that shows the start time in my local time, as I have often miscalculated the start time when doing it a long time in advance. I cut and pasted the description as I usually do from a text file I keep for setting up tourneys. I had switched back to the windows client to finish a tourney before that one, and when I was done the first one, I went to check on the next one I had scheduled, to add a TD. I noticed that the Description was all double spaced, and much of it not visible. What I found that was particularly odd, was that when I went into the Edit Tourney screen to delete the extra lines, they were not there. And stranger yet, the text was all run together and I could neither enter a space nor an enter keystroke or a backspace. I have seen before that there is a difference between the enter key and a combination carriage return / line feed. I am sure it is important to do it the same as in the Windows client or the descriptions entered that way will always appear different depending on the version the individual players are using. I hope it is easily fixable! I did not try entering the description one line at a time, but plan to to see if that corrects the problem. However, that means 8 - 10 separate copy and paste operations. The Tourney was due to start soon, so, from the windows client, I simply deleted it all and pasted it all back in. I have set up a few tourneys in the Windows client, and started to direct them in the web client and the description has always appeared properly going that way. I still like the web client but have yet to complete a whole tourney with it. Inevitably, I bail out and revert to the Windows client when I am unable to chat to the tourney room at large while watching the tables (when I am not at a particular table) or if I am working alone or with a new trainee TD. I often help another tourney group and we often have several TD's, so shall keep trying it there, when I am doing much less chat to the lobby. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_with_a_B Posted May 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 An afterthought: Perhaps the copy and paste problem in the description is related to the problem I mentioned earlier about the Keyboard Express not working as expected. The effects are very similar in appearance. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 I did find the button associated with the Director button, as well as the pop up button. However, I must be missing something yet. Using either of them I failed to find the method to Chat to the Tournament, nor have I seen the way to show the Tournament Status. I still feel they must be staring me in the face, but I could not find them.http://dev.bridgebase.com/fred/v2td.JPG Note the commands for "Tournament Status" and "Chat->Tournament". It sounds like the problem you had with tournament descriptions is probably a bug on our end. I will investigate and, if it is our problem, try to include a fix in the next version. Fred GitelmanBridge Base Inc.www.bridgebase.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_with_a_B Posted May 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 I nearly made it! Firstly Thank you for the tips. The menu in the picture I had seen before but for some reason the other night, I could not bring it up. All went well for the first couple of rounds, but in the last half, I would often respond to a TD call and try to chat privately to the slow players to prompt them to play. I could not. Other players would see that I was at the table, but I could not communicate with the unresponsive one. Eventually I saw that my co-TD had multiple calls so I bailed out near the end. Now I am very confused about the Description. I Set it up in the Windows client and noticed it was double spaced in the web client. So i went back and edited it in the windows client. One line was showing as "...John&Bill" but in the text file from which I pasted it showed "...JohnBill" with an underscore under the Bill. I had to recently rewrite the file due to my crash, but think I had used it since with no problems. I now suspect it is at my end and will test it after my next T when I can set up another. (It sure would make life easier to be able to set up 2 at a time, rather than just one, when I have 2 that are close together, let alone for this.) I will watch what happens and keep you informed. I noticed a couple other things. When I used the popup button with the director tab selected, every time I did the display reverted to showing me my friends' list. When I was done with the popup, I had to switch back. It would be great if it stayed on the Director's tab. Another small problem I seemed to have is that if I scrolled back in the lobby chat, to see something, even when I scrolled back to the bottom again it often, not always, quit advancing. At times there where messages I needed to see that had no audible prompts and when there was, I found dozens of lines in the chat I had not seen. Most were friendly greetings, but I had not seen them and had just assumed the lobby was quiet. It persisted even though I had scrolled to the bottom, but at times seemed to correct itself later, perhaps after going to a table or something, I didn't see. Many times I had to keep pressing the down arrow to keep up with the chat when I had the chance. Related to that, I often get private messages, instead of TD calls, that lead to me going to a table. A useful item on the popup menu that appears with a right click would be to join that player's table. If I raise the players profile and figure out where they are and find the table is time consuming. And a last very minor thing is being able to see how many tables are still in play. It is nice to be able to notice that the first table in a T is done, and later, how many are still playing. I have not seen that info anywhere yet, although knowing me, it may be there already. I shall test some of these things I have mentioned, and report further. One I have not, is the Chat to Tourney box, and the running of multi line macros... I think I tried one there, and the box closed after the first line, but I may be in error. I will test it again soon. It is a moot point if the plan is have the chat to tourney available in the Show Tables screen. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_with_a_B Posted May 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 One more minor thing... Is there a way to see the list of available subs?Sometimes I want to replace a player by country, or put one in from the sub list that I accidentally removed... John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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