You to open

[ewj]

[hv=d=s&v=e&s=skxhdjxcakjtxxxxx]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

What do you open?

[hanp]

1C, but 5C is far from insane imo.

[ewj]

1C, but 5C is far from insane imo.

Oh and if partner responses 1M, what do you rebid?

[hanp]

Responses?

 

I think it is unlikely that it goes 1C - p - 1X - p but if it does then I'll rebid 5C.

[ewj]

Responses?

 

I think it is unlikely that it goes 1C - p - 1X - p but if it does then I'll rebid 5C.

Ok, well at the table it goes 1♣-(1♦)-1♥-2♦ to you. So 5♣ then presumably.

[hanp]

No if they bid a suit then I will cuebid and then rebid clubs.

[jdonn]

I open 5♣ since I'm sure only almost every auction it will be my rebid anyway.

 

That's actually a poor way to state my reason, it's more that I don't know how much opening 1 does for slam exploration since it's far from clear what rebidding 5 shows anyway, other than a ton of playing strength.

[dake50]

Do you have a solid suit opener to next show H-void? Help partner make a slam try eg. with S-Q+D-AK.

[andy_h]

5C. Science can a be a bit hard with a 9card suit so I prefer to put a bit of pressure on the opponents.

[JLOL]

I open 5♣ since I'm sure only almost every auction it will be my rebid anyway.

 

That's actually a poor way to state my reason, it's more that I don't know how much opening 1 does for slam exploration since it's far from clear what rebidding 5 shows anyway, other than a ton of playing strength.

It's clear that it shows a hand too good to open 5C, and thus partner will often bid 6 on hands that would pass a 5 level opener when we have a slam.

[jdonn]

I open 5♣ since I'm sure only almost every auction it will be my rebid anyway.

 

That's actually a poor way to state my reason, it's more that I don't know how much opening 1 does for slam exploration since it's far from clear what rebidding 5 shows anyway, other than a ton of playing strength.

It's clear that it shows a hand too good to open 5C, and thus partner will often bid 6 on hands that would pass a 5 level opener when we have a slam.

Or hands that don't since he doesn't know our void? Obv it gets us to more slams, it's just whether enough more of them are good than bad to counteract the advantages of opening 5 in case they have a save or make a lot. I really don't think so, how many times if your life have you opened 1m planning to rebid 5? None for me.

[Fluffy]

IMO 1♣ then 5♣ would also mean more defensive values than 5♣ opening. I don't think ♠K is enough, I better open 5♣.

[Phil]

1♣. At any other colors besides w/r I'd open this 5.

[mich-b]

An idea I saw people use :

 

a 4NT opening showing a "good 5 of a minor" bid , somewhat like 4m Namyats opening.

 

This opening fits well for this thread's hand.

[whereagles]

I like a direct 5♣.

[Hanoi5]

5♣

[hanp]

1♣. At any other colors besides w/r I'd open this 5.

That's interesting because I would think these are the most appealing colors to open 5C.

[jdonn]

1♣. At any other colors besides w/r I'd open this 5.

That's interesting because I would think these are the most appealing colors to open 5C.

Just call him no-phear-phil.

[Phil]

1♣. At any other colors besides w/r I'd open this 5.

That's interesting because I would think these are the most appealing colors to open 5C.

Which is the best reason not to open a hand with 10 tricks 5♣?

 

In some of my partnerships I use a 4N opening to show a 'good' 5m opener, and this would qualify.

[hanp]

The best reason not to open 5C is that you will miss some slams. This will hurt least when you are NV.

 

Then best reason to open 5C is that you put some pressure on the opponents. This is best when they are vulnerable.

[ArtK78]

I play a different sort of 3 of a minor opening than most - 3 of a minor shows a preemptive hand but a suit headed by the AQ or AK or better (the person who introduced this idea to me told me it was a Barry Crane gadget). Given that, my choice would be between opening 3♣ or 5♣ rather than everyone else's choice between 1♣ and 5♣.

 

If I did open 3♣ and it was not passed out (how could it be passed out?) I could rebid 5♣. Partner would certainly be surprised to hear that, but he would be able to work out that I had a preemptive hand with about 9 clubs headed by the AQ or AK or better.

[Phil]

I play a different sort of 3 of a minor opening than most - 3 of a minor shows a preemptive hand but a suit headed by the AQ or AK or better (the person who introduced this idea to me told me it was a Barry Crane gadget). Given that, my choice would be between opening 3♣ or 5♣ rather than everyone else's choice between 1♣ and 5♣.

 

If I did open 3♣ and it was not passed out (how could it be passed out?) I could rebid 5♣. Partner would certainly be surprised to hear that, but he would be able to work out that I had a preemptive hand with about 9 clubs headed by the AQ or AK or better.

3♣ makes my positively ill, TV Director or no TV Director.

 

Imagine poor partner with a 4441 14 count....

[Apollo81]

I agree with Phil. At any other colors I would just open 5 for the preemptive value, and expect to occasionally be raised to a making slam. By opening 5♣ here at W/R we will miss virtually all good small slams, and maybe even some grands.

[ArtK78]

I play a different sort of 3 of a minor opening than most - 3 of a minor shows a preemptive hand but a suit headed by the AQ or AK or better (the person who introduced this idea to me told me it was a Barry Crane gadget).  Given that, my choice would be between opening 3♣ or 5♣ rather than everyone else's choice between 1♣ and 5♣.

 

If I did open 3♣ and it was not passed out (how could it be passed out?) I could rebid 5♣.  Partner would certainly be surprised to hear that, but he would be able to work out that I had a preemptive hand with about 9 clubs headed by the AQ or AK or better.

3♣ makes my positively ill, TV Director or no TV Director.

 

Imagine poor partner with a 4441 14 count....

I don't have to argue the merits of the method. What I can say is that it gives you numerous opportunities to bid a cold 3NT with confidence that, playing normal methods, you would never have the ability to do, and you can also make some great penalty doubles knowing that partner's minor suit is headed by the AQ or AK.

 

It has been related to me that the main reason why Barry Crane used this method is that he came to the conclusion that 3 of a minor preempts are not very effective. So he gave them up in favor of this more constructive method. I can say, having used it for about 4 years, that I don't miss not opening KQJxxxx of clubs at the 3 level.

 

One should not criticise the method without any experience playing it or against it. Of course, if it actually makes you physically ill, you can forward the doctor's bill to me.

 

By the way, I never said that I would open 3♣ on this hand playing my method. But it is a thought. And would partner be any better placed over a 5♣ opening bid? He would think you were more likely to hold something like 8 or 9 clubs to the KQ rather than the AK. And there is certainly no guarantee that you won't have 3 losers opposite a 4441 14 count.

[hanp]

You are right, partner would be just as badly placed over a 5C opening bid, both 3C and 5C have a serious risk of missing slam. At least 5C is more preemptive, 3C is just nothing.