Board-a-Match

[Gerben42]

I would like to know if in your country, it is more usual to treat a board with a 10-point difference as a tie or not.

 

The same question applies for Patton count.

[tbr]

No--for Board-a-Match if you get 430 and your teammates defend and their opponents get 420, you won the board. That 10-point difference is not a push the way it is in IMPs. It is either a 1, a half or a zero. That is your invitation to the Reisinger every fall, or the Mixed teams every summer.

 

I don't know Patton count.

[Finch]

In my country, 10 points is considered a tie.

We call it point-a-board, however.

[joker_gib]

BAM is unfortunately not played in Belgium (yet) !

 

When we played BAM at the Pula festival in Croatia 430 vs 420 was winning the board. (if I remember correctly)

[Gerben42]

Alain will you be in Pula this year? I will!

[Stephen Tu]

In my country, 10 points is considered a tie.

We call it point-a-board, however.

 

Wow! Is 20 points tie also or not? I assume not since that's an overtrick in a minor & it counts in IMPs also.

 

If so, that's absolutely brutal against NT contracts, you lose a full board for 400 vs. 420 but can't get it back for a 430 vs. 420? Or same idea for 110 vs. 90 & 120 vs. 110?

 

I think this is absolutely bizarre.

[Stephen Tu]

Hmm, curious about this, I did some web searching -- the only reference I can see to "10 points = tie" for point-a-board was in context of a tie-breaking procedure of events whose primary scoring method was something else.

 

The Mind sport olympiad point-a-board in Manchester was scored with the normal 10 pt = win. Although being a world event I suppose that would explain this.

 

Couldn't find much reference to run-of-the-mill UK only pure point-a-board events, I take it they are close to non-existant?

[JLOL]

?! 10 point ties seems terrible. Is there any greater pleasure in like than +110 into -100 from your teammates? Or the red/red 1NTs where you play it well for +90 but teammates went for 100.

 

It seems like 10 point ties really makes the game different.

[gnasher]

In my country, 10 points is considered a tie.

We call it point-a-board, however.

In my country, the question of how to score such an event (or what to call it) is largely academic, since they almost don't exist. Point-a-board in the UK is so rare that I can remember all the times (four) that I have played it [edit: in the UK, that is]. Or having I been missing out on something all these years?

Edited April 17, 2009 by gnasher

[fred]

In my country, the question of how to score such an event (or what to call it) is largely academic, since they almost don't exist.  Point-a-board in the UK is so rare that I can remember all the times (four) that I have played it.  Or having I been missing out on something all these years?

If you mean have you been missing out on something good, then I would answer that with a very strong "yes".

 

BAM is the most exciting, fun, and challenging form of the game in my view.

 

Agree with those who posted that it would be absurd to ignore 10-point differences when scoring BAM.

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[blackshoe]

Wikipedia defines "Board-a-Match" as

each hand has equal weight; each hand is won, lost, or tied.

I suppose this leaves open the possibility that the conditions of contest could specify (as do the rules for imp scoring) that a ten point difference is a "tie", but I had never heard of, nor ever considered the possibility of such a rule. It has always been my understanding that BAM means matchpoints, and that matchpoints means that a 10 point difference, indeed any difference at all, is significant and not a tie.

[Trinidad]

Where I have played, 10 points is considered a win at BAM, but a tie in Patton. To me that seems to make sense. (Essentially it means that in Patton you only win the board if you win IMPs on it.)

 

Rik

[skjaeran]

In Norway a 10 point difference wins the board both in BAM and Patton.

[Stephen Tu]

Never heard of Patton before today. It is a bizarre Imp->VP + BAM hybrid? What's the exact ratio used? How does it affect strategy?

[gnasher]

If you mean have you been missing out on something good, then I would answer that with a very strong "yes".

I actually meant, "Have I been missing out on something local?" I normally have to travel about 5000 miles to find an English-speaking BAM, so if Frances tells me that she plays in one every week at her golf club I shall be a bit disconcerted.

[gnasher]

I don't understand the objections to treating a 10-point difference as a tie. Obviously it means that you're playing a different game, but why is it inferior?

 

In my opinion, the features of BAM that make it better than any other form of scoring are that every deal has equal weight, and that your score is determined solely by what you team and your opponents do. Those advantages apply regardless of how a 10-point difference is scored.

 

I think that the main effect of ignoring a difference of 10 points is to encourage you to play in the strain where you're going to make most tricks - there's no longer an incentive to play in notrumps instead of a major. It still rewards good cardplay and good game- and slam-bidding. In the spectrum of scoring methods, that puts it slightly closer to IMPs, but I don't see why that makes it "absurd" or "terrible".

[Hanoi5]

10 points difference is a point.

[JLOL]

It doesn't reward cardplay as much. I think if I'm in 2D and my teammates went for 100 the trick from 90 to 110 should matter. In this scoring that trick is irrelevant.

 

It doesn't reward good competitive bidding judgment as much. If I balance over a making 3H and they fail to double me and I go for 100 I should win the board against the other people who didn't balance and went for 110. It doesn't punish the people who failed to double as much.

 

There are a ton of differences, obviously you can play the game with whatever you want being a tie. Why draw the line at 10 points? How about 30 points is a tie so that overtricks don't really matter too much. I think it's a better game to have the 10 points matter, and that's one of the most fun parts of BAM to me.

 

I think BAM is about every trick, every point mattering. It's a very hard and precise game with lots of close decisions. If I didn't want that I'd play imps.

[jdonn]

I think to summarize what Justin said, the point is that it's unnatural (in that someone decided some scoring difference should simply not matter) and arbitrary (in that someone decided 10 points doesn't matter but 20 points does). I agree with him, the point is maybe partly about every board counting equally, but also about every decision on every hand having enhanced potential importance. This other game, for lack of anything else to call it, ruins that a bit.

[helene_t]

Suppose teammates go for -100 and you play 2M which may make 110 or 140 depending on the brilliancy of your play and that of the defence. That overtrick will be rewarded in England (UK?) but not in the rest of the World. So with respect to awarding card play, at the bottom line it doesn't matter much if you use the English or the non-English system I think.

 

However, if 3NT and 4M take the same tricks then bidding 3NT is not rewarded in England and that sorta defeats the idea of BAM imho.

[fred]

Never heard of Patton before today.  It is a bizarre Imp->VP + BAM hybrid?  What's the exact ratio used?  How does it affect strategy?

I played in a couple of Patton events in French tournaments that I would say roughly corresponded to an average ACBL Regional (in terms of size and strength of field and in terms of duration). The French (smartly in my view) run a relatively small number of events in these tournaments compared to the number of events in a typical ACBL Regional. At both of the tournaments I was at, the Pattons were among the premier events. As far as I could tell, most of the players really looked forward to playing in the Patton (perhaps partly because most/all of the other main events were pairs events). There was quite a bit of prize money available in all of events I played in and prizes were awarded rather deeply into the overall rankings.

 

If I recall correctly, the Pattons I played in featured a movement that is similar to that which is used in ACBL BAM events (but teams compared after each round). I don't think it was run like a Swiss, but I could be wrong about that. Each match consisted of 4 boards. 10 points were available in each match. 6 of these points came by converting IMPs to a mini-VP scale. The other 4 points came from BAM.

 

It is entirely possible my memory of how the scoring worked in these events is not completely accurate. It is also entirely possible that there are various other ways that Patton events are run and scored.

 

I do not really have enough experience playing Patton to speak with a great degree of confidence regarding strategy. I can tell you that I found the strategy to be very interesting and stimulating (though rather impure - I don't think it would be a good format for a "very serious event"). On a lot of boards it felt like the right strategy was to start in IMP-mode, but switch to BAM-mode part way through (typically after it became clear that the number of IMPs at stake from that point forward would be small). The shortness of the matches also created some unusual strategic considerations in matches where you had a clearly wonderful or clearly terrible result in the first 3 boards.

 

Probably some of the strong European players who post on Forums have gained additional insights into the strategy of Patton and hopefully some will post their thoughts here.

 

Overall it was a rather enjoyable experience, but I am not sure how much of that had to do with the fact that Zia was my partner, that the tournaments themselves were very well-organized and held in beautiful locations, or because of the novelty effect of trying a new form of scoring.

 

Sorry I am unsure about so much of the above.

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[Stephen Tu]

I don't understand the objections to treating a 10-point difference as a tie

 

Maybe we just feel it's really weird. Like if someone decided to run a MP pairs game, except 10 point difference gives you tie with the other table.

 

I think NT ought to be rewarded, also. Would anybody mind an IMP scale alteration giving 0.5 imp for a 10 point difference?

[fred]

I don't understand the objections to treating a 10-point difference as a tie.  Obviously it means that you're playing a different game, but why is it inferior?

Part of the appeal of BAM is that it is a very difficult and very pure form of the game.

 

Treating a 10-point difference as a tie makes the game easier and less pure.

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[crazy4hoop]

I agree with what I believe are Justin's, Josh's, and Fred's main points - that the beauty of a BAM-scored event is that every trick is so crucially important - one cannot afford the slightest mental lapse at any time, which also makes it a grueling event which is advantageous to those with great bridge stamina and mental toughness (which I think is a good thing). I think it was Justin who said that if you wanted to play in an event where the 10 points didn't matter, go play IMPs. I remember playing at a regional in New York City several years ago where in a rather competitive auctioin, my opponent playing in 5 of a Major, played it carefully to try to make 7 for 510, which he did, in case his teammates took the save and went for one too many and were minus 500, which they were. Even though it was at my expense, I thought it was cool and have found BAM totally fascinating ever since.

[Patapon]

In France we play Patton in most of the summer "beach tournament".Biarritz, La Baule, Deauville, Cannes...

 

We call a Patton a team tourney whatever the movement is.It may run like a swiss or not.We play 3 or 4 sessions of 28 boards.( 1 each day).

 

We usually play 4 boards per round( sometimes 6).

 

When we play 4 boards match, then 16 points are available in each match.

-8 for the BAM points- 2 on each board as you win 2-0 or tie 1-1

-8 of these points came by converting IMPs to VP scale(8-0,7-1,6-2,5-3 or 4-4)

 

When we play 6 boards then 24 points are available in each match.

 

There are always money prizes available in all the events.There are also many gift prizes.

You also win some expert points( French masterpoints) but almost nothing compared to the points you win in official FFB events.