Off-shape NT?

[Echognome]

[hv=d=s&v=b&s=sjxhjxdakqxxxcaxx]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

Which is your preferred opening?

[Phil]

Good example of the 14-15 1N with a 6 card minor (which IMO have become a little too common).

[rogerclee]

1NT, I think anything else is terrible.

[Fluffy]

1NT the contract I want to play :P

[MarkDean]

1♦ for me - why is it that about half of the time Clee says a bid is terrible, I am making that bid?

[whereagles]

I prefer 1D + 3D.

[ArtK78]

This is IMPs. I open 1♦.

 

After you open 1♦ you should be able to get to 3NT if it is right; however, getting to 5♦ or 6♦ when they are right after you open 1NT will be next to impossible.

[helene_t]

I have no problems rebiding 3♦ if I open 1♦. At white/white I would have opened 1NT to get a head start in the fight of the partscore. As it is I open 1♦.

[Phil]

I don't think 1♦ is terrible, but IMO:

 

1. The Jx's want to declare not be dummy. Axx wants to be dummy. 2:1 for declaring.

2. I have 7 tricks in my hand for NT

3. 6m322 frequently plays better in NT

4. If I open 1♦, 2♦ is an underbid and 3♦ is an overbid.

[Echognome]

I personally think this is a 1♦ opening and 3♦ rebid.

 

For me, 3♦ is not an overbid even accounting for the dubious values of the Jx's. AKQxxx with an outside A is a really nice combination.

 

Playing MP or opposite a passed partner, I might be more inclined to open 1NT.

 

I don't have any issue opening 1NT with a 6-card minor, I just don't think this is the hand for it.

[JLOL]

1N.

 

I think 1D then 3D is a huge overbid.

[mtvesuvius]

1NT, it's perfect.

[Echognome]

Not that it's anything to go by, but K&R puts the hand at 17. I feel off the deep-end, but trying to work out why 3♦ is a huge overbid. Doesn't our hand have loads of offensive strength?

[mikeh]

mps 1N: often the best partscore and a good preempt, and most often leads to the highest scoring game contract, even if it may also be an inferior contract.

 

Imps, 1♦ then 3♦. Not that is is perfect.. but:

 

1. We will reach diamond games and slams usually unbiddable after a 1n start

2. We may reach a decent or better 3N after this start when he has a pass over a 15-17 1N: Qxx Qxxx xx KJxx.. this hand should pass 1N and bid 3n after a 1♦ 3♦ start

 

 

There are other factors to consider, but these are the two most important that spring to mind..

[whereagles]

1N.

 

I think 1D then 3D is a huge overbid.

That's funny. I think it's perfect ;)

[Phil]

1. We will reach diamond games and slams usually unbiddable after a 1n start

Quite likely we can get to 6♦ easier if we make the initial overbid of 3♦. We also may be going down in 6♦ if pard expects us to have a better hand.

 

What hand type will partner have where you are getting to a sound 5♦ where: 1. partner won't opt for 3N, 2. the opponents aren't bidding your open suit, and 3. you'll sensibly get there.

 

2. We may reach a decent or better 3N after this start when he has a pass over a 15-17 1N: Qxx Qxxx xx KJxx.. this hand should pass 1N and bid 3n after a 1♦ 3♦ start

 

I think 3N over 3♦ is also an overbid with this soft 8 and no diamond filler.

 

I think getting to 3N is much easier after opening 1N, since there are plenty of 8-9's that are (rightly IMO) passing 3♦ but are at least inviting over 1N.

 

Here's one I had this weekend:

 

[hv=d=w&v=b&w=sa9hj9daqtxxxckqx&e=sjxhakxxdjxxxcxxx]266|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

I have no idea what the East hand does if the bidding starts 1♦ - 1♥ - 3♦. Unfortunately the other table also opened 1N, so the board was a push.

[mikeh]

Quite likely we can get to 6♦ easier if we make the initial overbid of 3♦.

 

2. We may reach a decent or better 3N after this start when he has a pass over a 15-17 1N: Qxx Qxxx xx KJxx.. this hand should pass 1N and bid 3n after a 1♦ 3♦ start

 

I think 3N over 3♦ is also an overbid with this soft 8 and no diamond filler.

Hmmm... 3♦ with 15 hcp, 5 controls, good card suit is an overbid... and yet when your partners bid 1♦ 3♦, presumably with stronger hands, you think that parter will pass many 8-9 counts?

[JLOL]

Maybe I am on another planet but if I opened 1D I would rebid 2D (which is why I don't open 1D).

 

Also I don't see how bidding 3N with 8 and a doubleton diamond over a 3D rebid is an overbid.

[kenrexford]

1NT seems right for a number of reasons, many of which have been articulated.

 

I'm also not so sure that 6♦ when right is that hard to bid.

[Echognome]

Here's one I had this weekend:

 

Dealer: West Vul: Both Scoring: IMP

♠ A9 ♥ J9 ♦ AQTxxx ♣ KQx ♠ Jx ♥ AKxx ♦ Jxxx ♣ xxx

 

I have no idea what the East hand does if the bidding starts 1♦ - 1♥ - 3♦. Unfortunately the other table also opened 1N, so the board was a push.

I think your example hand is a lot different than the one I gave. I'd be much more inclined to open 1NT with the hand you give as it has a lot more meat in the short suits.

 

Original hand: 6 points in short suits, including J J A. 9 points in long suit, which is nearly solid.

 

Your example: 10 points in short suits including A J KQ with two intermediates in those suits. 6 points in long suit, which is decent but not solid.

[MarkDean]

I am rather amazed that people think a 3♦ rebid is an overbid. What does a typical 3♦ rebid look like for you?

 

Would you open and rebid 2♦ on Jx Jx KQxxxx Axx? It seems odd to me that rebidding 3♦ on an ace more, thereby solidifying the suit would be considered an overbid.

[fred]

I am rather amazed that people think a 3♦ rebid is an overbid. What does a typical 3♦ rebid look like for you?

 

Would you open and rebid 2♦ on Jx Jx KQxxxx Axx? It seems odd to me that rebidding 3♦ on an ace more, thereby solidifying the suit would be considered an overbid.

Perhaps some that think 3D is an overbid would open 2D with the 11-count that you present. I admit that I am old-fashioned enough that I would do just that.

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[rogerclee]

1♦ for me - why is it that about half of the time Clee says a bid is terrible, I am making that bid?

I want to add that these are the reasons I think 1♦ is terrible:

 

1) It doesn't preempt the opponents as much, who can easily be on for 4M when my hand is this concentrated in diamonds. It is not unusual to play 1N= after opening 1N when the opponents are making 4M. It is also very frequent that the opponents can outcompete us in one of the majors if we open 1♦.

 

2) I think it's way more likely 1N makes than 3♦ if we are going to play this in a partial, though 2M may not make as often as 3♦ if partner has a transfer and pass sort of hand, I am not sure.

 

3) I think partner will bid 3N too often over 1♦, 3♦, but I am open to being proven wrong about this.

 

4) This hand is not very good for slam purposes anyway and the number of hands we can actually get to 5♦ when it's right after I open 1♦ is very small, the diamonds are not truly solid and being balanced is a huge liability. I think it's easy to overestimate the number of good slams we miss by opening 1NT.

[jdonn]

To me this is an absolutely textbook example of the sort of hand that if you open 1♦ is between a 2♦ and 3♦ rebid. That fact, and the Jx's which are good holdings with which to declare, make 1NT absolutely obvious to me.

[JLOL]

Mark,

 

It makes more sense to me to have an 11-15 range for 2 and a 16-17 range for 3 than an 11-14 range for 2 and a 15-17 range for 3.

 

Add to this that:

 

1) I don't think this is a good 15, Jx Jx offsets the good, and we only have 6 diamonds rather than 7.

 

2) Not all hands with 11 would be opened with 1D.

 

3) Some 18 counts are in range for a 3D rebid.

 

The fact that it's debatable whether to rebid 2 or 3 (I would not have, though you probably would not have, for the opposite reason) is a good argument for opening 1N.