jillybean Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 Dealer: East Vul: NS Scoring: IMP ♠ J96 ♥ KT ♦ KJ83 ♣ AQ64 West North East South - - 1♠ ? You are south 2nd seat - East opens 1♠ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbodell Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 I pass, but I'm guessing that some might try 1NT or X or 2♣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 Pass Without a second thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtvesuvius Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 Pass. Why would I bid? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 I once bid 1NT on a hand much like this, but with an extra ace. With this one pass is quite clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 I should say the reason everyone will find pass so easy is not that it's desirable since it's not. It's just that this is a common problem we have all come across many times, so we know to pass without going through the thought process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted April 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 I should say the reason everyone will find pass so easy is not that it's desirable since it's not. It's just that this is a common problem we have all come across many times, so we know to pass without going through the thought process. Its the thought process I'm most interested in :ph34r:Its taken me a long time to get to the point where Im happy passing with this sort of hand, whenever I have points I've thought I must bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 You have shortness in the unbid major so you can't double. Basically this is the thought process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted April 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 delete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 I don't know why you snapped at him, what he said is exactly right. There really isn't anything more to it other than to note you only make an exception with extra values. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted April 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 You’re right and I removed my response immediately after posting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 I should say the reason everyone will find pass so easy is not that it's desirable since it's not. If pass is not desirable why don't we bid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtvesuvius Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 I should say the reason everyone will find pass so easy is not that it's desirable since it's not. If pass is not desirable why don't we bid? What bid do you suggest? Pass is the least of evils. Double: We only have 2♥, so this is ruled out.1NT: We are light, and have no ♠ stopper.2♣: To bid a 4 card suit is suicide imo. Picture LHO with 7♣ to the KJ... OOPS. Not only that, but your ♣ suit isn't even that good.2♦: See 2♣.Anything Else: Anything else is insane.This leaves pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 I should say the reason everyone will find pass so easy is not that it's desirable since it's not. If pass is not desirable why don't we bid? What bid do you suggest? Pass is the least of evils. Double: We only have 2♥, so this is ruled out.1NT: We are light, and have no ♠ stopper.2♣: To bid a 4 card suit is suicide imo. Picture LHO with 7♣ to the KJ... OOPS. Not only that, but your ♣ suit isn't even that good.2♦: See 2♣.Anything Else: Anything else is insane.This leaves pass. I wasn't the one who said pass wasn't desirable. jdonn Posted: Apr 12 2009, 04:33 PM I should say the reason everyone will find pass so easy is not that it's desirable since it's not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Pass is definitely not desirable. What I mean by that is if double showed 13-15 balanced without implying support for hearts, I would be very happy to double (whereas if you change the AQ of clubs into small clubs I would not want to double even if it showed a balanced 7-9). Anyway your question was a bit silly imo. You pass even though it's not desirable because the available alternatives are even worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcurt Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 You pass even though it's not desirable because the available alternatives are even worse. There's another part to the thought process that hasn't been mentioned. That part is that the auction is a cooperative process with partner. If 1♠ rides around to partner he/she should be aware that you can easily hold a weak NT without heart length on this auction, and act accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 This becomes an easy hand if you ask yourself what do you do when you double and PD bids ♥ at any level since he'll assume that you have 4 card support and will expect at least good 3 card support. You have only 14 HCP and ♠ aren't really stopped so 1NT is really light here. That being said, passing isn't desirable here. I'll admit to overcalling at the 2m level sometimes with a 4 card suit with 100 honors or AKJ9 min with this point count and no other bid, but here you simply have to pass. If PD criticizes, tell him to read about take out doubles and also how to learn to balance if he should have. PASS .. neilkaz .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOL Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 You could definitely miss game by passing, but you just have no bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Pass is definitely not desirable. What I mean by that is if double showed 13-15 balanced without implying support for hearts, I would be very happy to double (whereas if you change the AQ of clubs into small clubs I would not want to double even if it showed a balanced 7-9). Anyway your question was a bit silly imo. You pass even though it's not desirable because the available alternatives are even worse. If pass is truly not desirable, then the question is how important is it to bid this hand - should we change the meaning of double or 1NT to accommodate this hand? If we are unwilling to sacrifice the meaning of any other bid to accomodate this hand, then we don't really have that strong of desire to compete. If the answer is only: all actions are worse, then pass is the best bid and thus it is the desired action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Pass is definitely not desirable. What I mean by that is if double showed 13-15 balanced without implying support for hearts, I would be very happy to double (whereas if you change the AQ of clubs into small clubs I would not want to double even if it showed a balanced 7-9). Anyway your question was a bit silly imo. You pass even though it's not desirable because the available alternatives are even worse. If pass is truly not desirable, then the question is how important is it to bid this hand - should we change the meaning of double or 1NT to accommodate this hand? If we are unwilling to sacrifice the meaning of any other bid to accomodate this hand, then we don't really have that strong of desire to compete. If the answer is only: all actions are worse, then pass is the best bid and thus it is the desired action. I have to say that this sounds like an awful lot of semantics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 If we are unwilling to sacrifice the meaning of any other bid to accomodate this hand, then we don't really have that strong of desire to compete. If the answer is only: all actions are worse, then pass is the best bid and thus it is the desired action. Not only was this an awful lot of semantics, but both these statements are false. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Its the thought process I'm most interested in :) Here is my thought process. "I got only 14 hcp. Even if I wanted to steal a point and bid 1NT, my spade stop is a bit wimpish, so that bid's out. Double is asking for trouble due to no heart support, so it's time to ask that question: do I have to bid NOW? Probably not. Pard rates to be short in spades, so, if he's got points, he'll double 1♠ if it gets passed to him. If it's not passed, I might get a shot at double or 2NT for the minors later." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 You could definitely miss game by passing, but you just have no bid. That thought [miss game] definitely doesn't cross my mind.. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted April 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Here’s the full hand and if you care to look, the traveller. Not surprisingly you will see that pass counts for almost half of the responses. http://online.bridgebase.com/myhands/hands...rname=jillybean I think sometimes these problems are too quickly dismissed. If nothing else I find it beneficial to compare this with others where perhaps you would double with ♥AKQ, bid 1nt with ♠Qxx.Its not always easy to recognise good bridge from bad, this is the Beginner Intermediate forum and not all B/I’s are geniuses. [hv=d=s&v=e&n=sk8hj98754d4c9875&w=sj96hktdkj83caq64&e=s73h632dt975ckjt2&s=saqt542haqdaq62c3]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - - 1♠ Pass Pass Pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 I don't care for the pass with the N hand with a supporting ♠ king and 6♥ to the jack. I'd try 1NT if forcing and maybe even if non forcing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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