Violence from normal people?

[Gerben42]

The key issue in violence (according to experts) is a feeling of "I don't have anything more to lose". It is this hopelessness that needs to be addressed. The polarization of wealth and educational opportunities certainly contributes to these feelings of nothing to lose.

 

I agree with this, but unfortunately society is built in a way that they are right. There isn't going to be much demand for unqualified work in the future, especially in the richer countries. In all but the richest countries there are still jobs that are done by sheer manpower, while here all such jobs have been automated or outsourced (while too expensive).

 

You cannot economically put together mobile phones by manpower if you have to pay every employee €5 an hour for just a 40-hour week. These jobs will cease to exist completely in the richest countries.

 

If you see mom and dad are without a job and, because they haven't got an education, are not getting any job either, what hope do the kids perceive to have?

 

In an economical downturn, I think we're going to see more of this, not less.

[mike777]

All men's miseries derive from not being able to sit in a quiet room alone.

Blaise Pascal

 

In other words it is nature not nurture that is the real issue.

 

However I agree having millions of unemployed young men will never help the issue of stopping violence.

[Lobowolf]

If you see mom and dad are without a job and, because they haven't got an education, are not getting any job either, what hope do the kids perceive to have?

Hopefully, the recognition that it's important to get an education.

[jdonn]

If you see mom and dad are without a job and, because they haven't got an education, are not getting any job either, what hope do the kids perceive to have?

Hopefully, the recognition that it's important to get an education.

How would an uneducated child with uneducated parents either figure out or be taught that logic?

[PassedOut]

How would an uneducated child with uneducated parents either figure out or be taught that logic?

Interestingly, it seems to me that uneducated immigrants to the US often do a good job of teaching their kids the importance of an education. Of course immigrants usually do have jobs and work hard at them.

[Lobowolf]

How would an uneducated child with uneducated parents either figure out or be taught that logic?

Many uneducated parents realize that their lack of an education is severely harming their economic status and opportunities, and they try to impart that knowledge to their children. That's probably the first and best chance. I know friends or parents of friends, and secondary family (cousins, etc.) members who were the first in their families to go to college. The fact that their parents and other relatives were not college educated, and in some cases were quite UNeducated didn't stop them from recognizing the importance of education and imparting that importance to their children, and getting their children to take advantage of opportunities they didn't have.

 

 

There's always the public service announcement "Stay in School" stuff, but probably actual personal appearances by celebrity role models giving talks about the importance of education would be better, along those lines. Truly inspirational teachers are good for that, too, but they're generally few and far between, and not nearly as high on the influence scale as family, friends, or celebrities. Underfunded schools are certainly a problem, but there are also problems that are incidental to money. I'd put my money on a motivated student in a bad school ahead of an unmotivated student in a mediocre school. Some teenagers recognize the worth and importance of their cars, and take good care of them; some trash them. Giving the ones who trash them better cars isn't the answer.

[jdonn]

How would an uneducated child with uneducated parents either figure out or be taught that logic?

Many uneducated parents realize that their lack of an education is severely harming their economic status and opportunities, and they try to impart that knowledge to their children.

I strongly suspect that a lot fewer uneducated people recognize the importance of an education than do educated people. In fact if that weren't the case it would be something of a paradox. If what you say is correct, wouldn't there be something of a pattern of alternating generations within families attending college? I guess it depends what you mean by many. 10 million people out of a group of 100 million isn't many imo.

 

I know friends or parents of friends,  and secondary family (cousins, etc.) members who were the first in their families to go to college.  The fact that their parents and other relatives were not college educated, and in some cases were quite UNeducated didn't stop them from recognizing the importance of education and imparting that importance to their children, and getting their children to take advantage of opportunities they didn't have.

In every family someone was the first to go to college. I don't see what you knowing some of those people really shows.

[Lobowolf]

How would an uneducated child with uneducated parents either figure out or be taught that logic?

Many uneducated parents realize that their lack of an education is severely harming their economic status and opportunities, and they try to impart that knowledge to their children.

I strongly suspect that a lot fewer uneducated people recognize the importance of an education than do educated people. In fact if that weren't the case it would be something of a paradox. If what you say is correct, wouldn't there be something of a pattern of alternating generations within families attending college? I guess it depends what you mean by many. 10 million people out of a group of 100 million isn't many imo.

 

I know friends or parents of friends,  and secondary family (cousins, etc.) members who were the first in their families to go to college.  The fact that their parents and other relatives were not college educated, and in some cases were quite UNeducated didn't stop them from recognizing the importance of education and imparting that importance to their children, and getting their children to take advantage of opportunities they didn't have.

In every family someone was the first to go to college. I don't see what you knowing some of those people really shows.

I definitely agree that a lot fewer uneducated people recognize the importance of an education than do educated people, and I didn't intend to suggest otherwise. I also agree about "many." As a raw number, 10 million is "many." As a percentage of 100 million people, it's not many.

 

I wasn't sure entirely how you intended "How would an uneducated child with uneducated parents either figure out or be taught that logic?"

 

My post was in response to the idea that the notion your intent was hypothetical, i.e. "That can't happen." It can happen, and it does happen. A lot. But much more often than a lot, it doesn't happen.

 

If you meant to suggest that it's relatively unlikely in any given case, I agree. How do you reach the other 90 million (or however many it is)? I don't know, but I think it's the biggest key to the problem. Maybe you ask the 10% what worked for them. I think money can HELP. It can encourage better teachers, or smaller classroom sizes, pay for public service announcements, or a number of other things.

 

But I don't think it gets you most of the way to answering the question, "How do you convince kids (or their families) who don't otherwise know it that their education (or their children's education) is important?" If you want to improve education, I think that's the most important question there is.

[mike777]

I have my doubts about all these posts that seem to claim that more education will lead to less violence from normal people. You may be correct but I would argue that the 20th century was the most educated in the history of mankind and it had the most violence from normal people.

[TimG]

I strongly suspect that a lot fewer uneducated people recognize the importance of an education than do educated people. In fact if that weren't the case it would be something of a paradox. If what you say is correct, wouldn't there be something of a pattern of alternating generations within families attending college?

I think it is a mistake to use "education" to mean college. I think more valuable than a college education is vocational training. Yes, sometimes a college education serves as vocational training, but not always. There are also lots of college educated individuals working jobs that shouldn't require a college degree. Which seems to me like a waste of resources.

[jdonn]

I strongly suspect that a lot fewer uneducated people recognize the importance of an education than do educated people. In fact if that weren't the case it would be something of a paradox. If what you say is correct, wouldn't there be something of a pattern of alternating generations within families attending college?

I think it is a mistake to use "education" to mean college. I think more valuable than a college education is vocational training. Yes, sometimes a college education serves as vocational training, but not always. There are also lots of college educated individuals working jobs that shouldn't require a college degree. Which seems to me like a waste of resources.

I couldn't disagree more. The point isn't training for a specific trade, it's to teach you to think. I do not agree with the association that education's importance is in making as much money as possible.

[PassedOut]

I do not agree with the association that education's importance is in making as much money as possible.

College is a great place to gain exposure to different and great ideas from thinkers from all ages and places. You learn a perspective there that is difficult to gain if you specialize in a trade too soon.

 

Even at my age, whenever I see a college catalog I read through it and see many courses I'd like to be able to take, if only my profession did not consume so much of my time. I hate to see young people missing out.

[luke warm]

I strongly suspect that a lot fewer uneducated people recognize the importance of an education than do educated people. In fact if that weren't the case it would be something of a paradox. If what you say is correct, wouldn't there be something of a pattern of alternating generations within families attending college?

I think it is a mistake to use "education" to mean college. I think more valuable than a college education is vocational training. Yes, sometimes a college education serves as vocational training, but not always. There are also lots of college educated individuals working jobs that shouldn't require a college degree. Which seems to me like a waste of resources.

I couldn't disagree more. The point isn't training for a specific trade, it's to teach you to think. I do not agree with the association that education's importance is in making as much money as possible.

how about for those who prefer votech, who have no desire at all to go to college? maybe someone who wants to be an auto mechanic, or even a barber... i don't think we're talking about making as much money as possible as soon as possible, unless you equate making a living with that

[TimG]

I do not agree with the association that education's importance is in making as much money as possible.

I don't think I said that and I certainly don't think that an education's importance is in making as much money as possible.

[PassedOut]

how about for those who prefer votech, who have no desire at all to go to college? maybe someone who wants to be an auto mechanic, or even a barber... i don't think we're talking about making as much money as possible as soon as possible, unless you equate making a living with that

True, not everyone will make good use of college, sad though that is. In my opinion, society would profit if it were much easier for folks to go to college after spending enough time out in the world to realize the importance of the good education they missed.

[jdonn]

I strongly suspect that a lot fewer uneducated people recognize the importance of an education than do educated people. In fact if that weren't the case it would be something of a paradox. If what you say is correct, wouldn't there be something of a pattern of alternating generations within families attending college?

I think it is a mistake to use "education" to mean college. I think more valuable than a college education is vocational training. Yes, sometimes a college education serves as vocational training, but not always. There are also lots of college educated individuals working jobs that shouldn't require a college degree. Which seems to me like a waste of resources.

I couldn't disagree more. The point isn't training for a specific trade, it's to teach you to think. I do not agree with the association that education's importance is in making as much money as possible.

how about for those who prefer votech, who have no desire at all to go to college? maybe someone who wants to be an auto mechanic, or even a barber... i don't think we're talking about making as much money as possible as soon as possible, unless you equate making a living with that

A college education is very important to those people as well is the point I'm trying to make. I don't think it would be wasted on them at all. They vote, they serve on juries, they participate in society, they raise families. They have brains just like everyone else.

[Winstonm]

From a hiring perspective, the benefit for an applicant holding a college degree is that it shows the candidate has the willingness and ability to finish tasks that are not particularly interesting to him or her in order to fulfill a larger goal. It infers a higher degree of maturity than a non-degreed person might have.