benlessard Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Q64 AJ75 You need 3 tricks but know that east has the K and at least tripleton. Hidden chart of hands to help you M= T,9,8S= 3,2 No_____W_____E_____________Times 1______-______KMMMSS______ 1 2______S_____KMMMS________ 2 3______SS____ KMMM_________1 4______M_____ KMMSS________3 5______MS____ KMMS_________6 6______MSS___ KMM__________3 7______MM____ KMSS_________3 8______MMS___KMS__________ 6 9______MMM___KSS__________ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petergreat Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Let there be 4 cases. 1. 3-3 distribution. So long as you finesse some time anything works. 2. 4-2 distribution. Some time you will need to finesse twice deep. Suppose East is K 10 9 8 you can finesse at first and win.Suppose East is K 10 9 x then you're cooked. There is no way to fight against that.You simply don't have enough intermediates. You only succeed for any East Kxx or K1098. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petergreat Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Oops. Re-posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbforster Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 I thought the point was to pick up MM vs KMxx by considering hooking deep on the 3rd round. Against Mx KMMx or xx KMMM there's no way to get a 3rd trick vs best defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_h Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 In isolation, you cannot get 3 tricks if RHO has KT98. If he has KMMx, you can get 3 tricks. Think hard :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miguelm Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Not sure what is this about, but assuming you are asking for the way to ensure 3 tricks knowing what we know, I would play.... 5 from hand, intending to play the 4 if W follows low, or the Queen otherwise... etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 Lol LHO might pop with 93 when you try to intrafinese, and you will have to guess if he's got MM or MS. This is starting to make me a headache, so I am over with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benlessard Posted April 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 you have to run the Q at trick 1, Q,K,A followed by finessing agaisnt a middle card twice. It will win against M-------kmmssMM-----kmssmss-----kmm its superior to the deep intra finesse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted April 21, 2009 Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 Both lines work against MSS-KMM. Each line gains over the other against six combinations. However, the combinations where the intrafinesse gains are all 4-2, whereas some of the combinations where the triple finesse works are 5-1. Hence the intrafinesse is better, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benlessard Posted April 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Intra finesse will win with Mx-----------KMMxMxx---------KMM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Mxx - KMM : both lines workMx - KMMx (6 combinations): intrafinesse worksMM - KMxx (3 combinations): treble finesse worksM - KMMxx (3 rarer combinations): treble finesse works Thus, as I said, the intrafinesse is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Seems trickier to me. Suppose you are going for intrafinesse, you lead towards dummy and LHO plays a middle card. Now you cover with queen and RHO wins king. You now have to guess if LHO played a middle card from Mx (in which case you should finesse RHO for both outstanding middle cards) or from MMx (in which case you must play for the remaining middle cards to drop). Note that the double finesse picks up all 3-3 breaks (except LHO with all three middle cards) routinely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benlessard Posted April 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 sorry my mistake, MMx---------kms is the gain. intrafinesse lose to East M, you go to dummy play the Q to smother west M (from Mx) and go again to dummy to... finesse you win against Mx-----KMMx but lose to MMx---------KMX. play for the drop you win with mmx-------kms but lose to Mx----kmmx its 9 to six 6 in favor of playing the Q (smothering MM or M in West) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 MMx---------kms is the gain. Good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miguelm Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 I guess I am lost.... what is the superior play after all...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 I guess I am lost.... what is the superior play after all...? Unless anyone else has something to add, we've settled on running the queen, then finessing twice more ("treble finesse"). Mxx - KMM : both lines workMMx - KMx (6 combinations): treble finesse worksMx - KMMx (6 combinations): intrafinesse worksMM - KMxx (3 combinations): treble finesse worksM - KMMxx (3 combinations): both lines work (I got this bit wrong earlier) This assumes that if I set out to play the intrafinesse line, and LHO plays a middle card on the first round, I'm going to play him for Mx or M. Obviously, in the real world one might do something different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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