1NT Forcing Auction ATB

[benlessard]

I wouldnt bid 3H over 2D i would just bid 2H.

 

I would surely raise to 3H instead of bidding 2Nt. Responder can still bid 3Nt if hes got only 5H, and if he pass i slightly prefer to be in 3H than 2Nt.

 

By default i would play 3C as forcing, but i do see value in playing it NF. Passing 2Nt is just a mistake.

[gnasher]

Your first statement amounts to 'we have a fair shot to guess the right contract anyway on a weak 6-5 without investigating an alternative' which is of course true on hands where you want a forcing checkback as well.

Playing 3♣ as natural doesn't help on all of the partscore hands: if you play 3♣ as either a weak 6-5 or a weak 5-6, you're simply transferring the guess from responder to opener whenever he's 5242. A natural 3♣ is only of clear benefit when opener is 5143.

 

You will reach a better partscore than me on a proportion of the (comparatively rare) 6-5 and 5-6 shapes. I will reach a better game than you on a smaller, but comparable, proportion of the (comparatively frequent) hands with six hearts and the values for game. I know which I prefer.

As for 5-6, for it to bid 3♣ over 2♦ would clearly be an exception to the norm based on a great suit quality disparity, since the normal bid on that shape is most definitely 2♥, the suit we can bid at a lower level, that is higher scoring, ...

2♥ is only higher scoring than 3♣ if it makes. With a weak 1516 opposite a 5242, playing in clubs is likely to be worth more than one trick, because of the difficulty of keeping control when playing in hearts. Opposite a singleton heart 2♥ will be horrible, whereas 3♣ might be OK opposite a singleton club.

 

in which we are more likely to have game, ...

We are talking about a hand that wants to sign off in 3♣ when opener bids 2NT, aren't we? I find it hard to picture a 5-6 that envisages game in hearts opposite a 5341 17-count, but doesn't fancy game in notrumps or clubs opposite a 5143 or 5242 17-count.

 

and which leaves opener room to cheaply rebid his original suit.

How often will he do that? I suppose this depends on how likely it is that opener has six spades. I'd nearly always rebid 2♠ over 1NT with a minimum 6-4, and would therefore pass 2♥ most of the time even with a singleton, but you'll probably tell me that's gone out of fashion.

[jdonn]

Your first statement amounts to 'we have a fair shot to guess the right contract anyway on a weak 6-5 without investigating an alternative' which is of course true on hands where you want a forcing checkback as well.

Playing 3♣ as natural doesn't help on all of the partscore hands: if you play 3♣ as either a weak 6-5 or a weak 5-6, you're simply transferring the guess from responder to opener whenever he's 5242. A natural 3♣ is only of clear benefit when opener is 5143.

Or when opener is 5242 and both contracts are better than 2NT?

[orlam]

A natural 3♣ is only of clear benefit when opener is 5143.

Isn't this a very frequent shape for opener? Maybe the most frequent? I would think 3♣ as natural is a clear gain when you have a weak 5-5, it doesn't have to be 6-5.

[junyi_zhu]

[hv=d=n&v=n&n=sakxxxhqxdkjxxcax&s=sxhakxxxxdqxcxxxx]133|200|Scoring: IMP

ATB:

 

1♠ - 1NT

2♦ - 2♥

2NT - Pass[/hv]

 

Playing 2/1 etc... Who screwed up?

South should move over 2NT, without gadget, south can guess to bid 3NT or 4H. With gadgets, he can bid 3D as transfer then correct 3H to 3NT to show his hand.

[barryallen]

To me the key here is that North has not retreated to 2♠, on that basis I cannot understand the problem for South, or is that too simple?

[jmcw]

2♦ and 2♥ seem conservative but reasonable rebids. Over 2♥ I prefer 3♥.