How do you play this suit?

[Hanoi5]

♦6

 

♦KQT87

 

In isolation, what's the best way to play it?

 

In this context:

 

[hv=n=sa9xxhjxxxd6catxx&s=skxhaxxdkqt87cqj9]133|200|Scoring: XIMP[/hv]

 

I was playing 3NT and received the ♣8 lead which I let run but RHO took with the ♣K. A small diamond came back.

 

My mistake was that I hadn't planned what to do, but I don't really know what I would have done otherwise ('cause now I'm biased...). What's the right way to tackle this hand?

[gnasher]

The last two times I answered a question like this I got it hopelessly wrong, but I'm going to have a go anyway.

 

(a) Playing them from the top works when the J or 9 comes down in three rounds.

 

(b) Compared with (a), finessing 10 loses to West's 9xxx(xx) or A9xx(xx), but gains against his J9xx or AJ9x. That's the same number of 4-3 breaks, so the 5-2 and 6-1 breaks decide in favour of line (a)

 

( c) Compared with (a), finessing 8 loses to West's Jxxx(xx) or AJxx(xx), but gains against his J9xx or AJ9x. That's as good as (b), and therefore inferior to (a).

 

I play them from the top.

 

On the actual hand, it depends on the auction and what East switched to.

Edited April 1, 2009 by gnasher

[mikeh]

In context is far different from in isolation.

 

In the posted scenario, I assume 1N by S and a stayman sequence ending in 3N.

 

Thus RHO can likely place S with 4 diamonds, and be aware of the possibility of 5 (or 3, if the club lead was unreadable).

 

We can then try to visualize holdings for rho in which his diamond switch appeared to be attractive.

 

But to interprete the switch, we need to know something about the calibre of the defender, their style and the exact card they played.

 

Thus, if they switch to the 5, and we assume that they play 4th best in this scenario, we can play the 8..... rho probably has AJ95 or 95xx or xxx, in the latter case, it doesn't matter what we play.

 

If they switch to a lower spot, we have to decide which holdings would appear most attractive, but if we assume that rho holds 4+, then the 8 seems to me to be the most attractive play... by what preponderance depends on what spot they lead.

 

Thus, if they switch to the 2, there are many possible 4 card holdings, but most defenders would not lead the 2 from a suit headed by the 9, and many would not from a suit of, say, J532 or J432. More probable holdings would be AJ92, AJ52, AJ43, AJ32, J952, J942, J932, A952, A942, A932. Personally, I would be far more likely to want to switch from a suit headed by AJ than A9, so against me, you should probably play the 10, and play LHO for 9xx.. but against defenders who would readily switch to A9xx, the odds swing back to the 8.

 

You can do the same sort of analysis with the other holdings, and I think that you will find that if RHO switches to a low spot, the 8 will usually be the best.

 

This is not the same as when you play the suit yourself, since you lack the inferences available from the positive decision by rho to play the suit.

 

All of the above is, of course, subject to understanding that RHO may hold a hand from which no switch is attractive.

 

I have not dealt with 5 or 6 card holdings for RHO... clearly, if he holds AJ9xx, you are going to have trouble gettng 3 winners.... you will have to decide whether LHO has 9x or Jx or AJ, A9, Ax... I would usually insert the 8, winning over Jx, and J9, and Ax, AJ and losing to 9x and A9.

 

I hope that covers it, but I may well have missed something.. I often do when typing long analyses :)

[Stephen Tu]

The last two times I answered a question like this I got it hopelessly wrong, but I'm going to have a go anyway.

 

(a) Playing them from the top works when the J or 9 comes down in three rounds.

 

I'm sorry but I think you got it hopelessly wrong again. Playing from top only works for all these combos if you are omniscient and know whether to play the T on the third round to kill the 9xx, or duck to the J third. Once you take out an appropriate # of failures because of this, putting in the T is a ton better.

 

For the suit in the context of the problem, see mikeh's post.

[gnasher]

I'm sorry but I think you got it hopelessly wrong again.

Yes. I have no idea what was going through my mind when I posted that. Anyway, from now on I'm going to cheat and use Suitplay.

[catatonic]

frankly I have no idea what is the correct line here

but my line , right or wrong , would be to finesse the T , if it loses to the J , duck the next round

[655321]

♦6

 

♦KQT87

 

frankly I have no idea what is the correct line here

but my line , right or wrong , would be to finesse the T , if it loses to the J , duck the next round

Mmm yes.

But the original question - in the subject line - was how to play the suit for 3 winners.