bid 4C or 4H?

[kgr]

[hv=d=n&s=sjxxhkxxdxckqjxxx]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

1♥-(Pass)-2♣*-(2♠)

3♦-(3♠)-???

2♣=GF with ♣ or 3-card ♥ raise limit+

 

3♦ should show extra's or do you think it can also be done with minimum and 5-5?

 

What do you bid now?

4♣ or 4♥

4♣=this is obviously a ♥-fit with a ♣ control? (If you would later bid 5♣ then this shows 1st control or is it real ♣'s then?). My ♣-suit is good enough to control, even with minimum hand. Partner probably has singleton ♠.

4♥=I'm minimum for what I already showed and I don't like ♦ bid by partner.

 

...Should 4♣ deny a ♠-control? e.g with ♠-control you DBL iso bidding 4♣?

[OleBerg]

Dealer: North Vul: ???? Scoring: IMP

♠ Jxx ♥ Kxx ♦ x ♣ KQJxxx

1♥-(Pass)-2♣*-(2♠)

3♦-(3♠)-???

2♣=GF with ♣ or 3-card ♥ raise limit+

 

3♦ should show extra's or do you think it can also be done with minimum and 5-5?

 

What do you bid now?

4♣ or 4♥

4♣=This is obviously NOT a ♥-fit with a ♣ control!

My ♣-suit is good enough to control, even with minimum hand. Partner probably has singleton ♠.

4♥=I'm minimum for what I already showed and I don't like ♦ bid by partner.

 

...Should 4♣ deny a ♠-control? e.g with ♠-control you DBL iso bidding 4♣?

FYP

[kgr]

<!-- ONEHAND begin --><table border='1'> <tr> <td> <table> <tr> <td> Dealer: </td> <td> North </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Vul: </td> <td> ???? </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Scoring: </td> <td> IMP </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td> <table> <tr> <th> <span class='spades'> ♠ </span> </th> <td> Jxx </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='hearts'> ♥ </span> </th> <td> Kxx </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='diamonds'> ♦ </span> </th> <td> x </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='clubs'> ♣ </span> </th> <td> KQJxxx </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td>  </td> </tr> </table><!-- ONEHAND end -->

1♥-(Pass)-2♣*-(2♠)

3♦-(3♠)-???

2♣=GF with ♣ or 3-card ♥ raise limit+

 

3♦ should show extra's or do you think it can also be done with minimum and 5-5?

 

What do you bid now?

4♣ or 4♥

4♣=This is obviously NOT a ♥-fit with a ♣ control!

My ♣-suit is good enough to control, even with minimum hand. Partner probably has singleton ♠.

4♥=I'm minimum for what I already showed and I don't like ♦ bid by partner.

 

...Should 4♣ deny a ♠-control? e.g with ♠-control you DBL iso bidding 4♣?

FYP

That is part of the question. Can't you bid 5♣ with real ♣'s (or DBL/3NT), so 4♣ always is control and ♥-fit?

[rbforster]

What about pass? I don't really like my hand (I was going to invite with 2♥ without the 2♠ bid, and I don't like it that much more now. Over 3♠, I'm not sure what to do and don't have any extras, so I think I'll pass the buck back to partner. Maybe he's got enough spade shortness to want to act.

[JLOL]

Just bid 4H. 4C just shows clubs, and even if 4H and 4C were both raises your hand sucks so you would bid 4H.

[kgr]

These were the hands and actual bidding:

[hv=d=n&n=sxhaqxxxdaxxxxcax&s=sjxxhkxxdxckqjxxx]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

1♥-(Pass)-2♣*-(2♠)

3♦-(3♠)-4♥-All Pass

     2♣=3c♥-fit or real ♣'s.

Should 6♥ be reached?

 

PS: I fully agreed after the match with my partner that 4♣ would show ♥-fit with ♣ control. Surprised that there is no support here for that viewpoint.

[JLOL]

You and your partner both agreed on that because you wanted some way to reach this 24 HCP slam. If you had 7 clubs and a good hand you would not have agreed with that thought (nor would your partner have had that thought). That is human behavior, so hopefully the fact that no one agrees with your here is meaningful.

 

The downsides of being forced to bid 5C when you have clubs are that you have a much tougher time bidding club slams when you have a club one suiter, and you have a much tougher time finding the right fit when you are like 1237 and partner can still have 6 hearts or 5 diamonds. Your suit might not even be that great, so jumping to 5C opposite what could be a sitff or void sucks.

 

The first suit you bid is clubs, and there's no reason you shouldn't have long clubs or be able to get to the right contract when you do.

 

There is also no reason for you to think you have a good hand here. You have a crappy hand unless partner has specifically Ax of clubs, and non wasted diamonds (ie the ace), and good trumps (ie the AQ), and a spade control. If you used 4C as a cuebid for hearts you would never do it on a hand this weak when you could have much more, like a 14 count.

 

Stop resulting!

[kgr]

You and your partner both agreed on that because you wanted some way to reach this 24 HCP slam. If you had 7 clubs and a good hand you would not have agreed with that thought (nor would your partner have had that thought). That is human behavior, so hopefully the fact that no one agrees with your here is meaningful.

could very well be true

There is also no reason for you to think you have a good hand here. You have a crappy hand unless partner has specifically Ax of clubs, and non wasted diamonds (ie the ace), and good trumps (ie the AQ), and a spade control. If you used 4C as a cuebid for hearts you would never do it on a hand this weak when you could have much more, like a 14 count.

Yes, I didn't like my singleton ♦ in fact.

 

...Thanks for the answer!