awm Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 The following came up in the IMP pairs. Red vs. white, I held: ♠KQx♥x♦Ax♣AKQJTxx After two passes, my RHO opened 5♦. This is potentially a difficult problem. I know a lot of people who would take an extremely long time to decide what call to make in this situation. In fact, I've seen people (good players too) take up to a minute or two to bid over such a preempt with a tough hand like this one. However, I'm generally a pretty fast bidder and tend not to agonize over these things. It only took me fifteen seconds or so to decide to bid 6♣ (obviously this might not be best, but that's the decision I came to). So I bid 6♣, passed back to RHO who bid 6♦! Now the funny problem is, I suspect that if I had agonized over my call for a minute or two (as some players would, faced with this situation) my RHO might have passed it out. But agonizing over a decision when in fact I have already decided is unethical, right? Am I trapped by my own rapid tempo here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 Should the 5♦ bidder have used the STOP card and then you would be required to wait 10seconds before bidding? But agonizing over a decision when in fact I have already decided is unethical, right? yes - but you are required to pause if rho makes a skip bid, I think an opening bid to game is included..Ed? Am I trapped by my own rapid tempo here? yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtvesuvius Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 I also held this hand, and opted for 6♣... LHO took 20-30 seconds before doubling and I would have also had BIT problems if RHO bid, but he passed, and I made 6♣ Xed :(. I don't think you are trapped by your previous tempo, however I think you are obliged to go a little faster because of it. This is an interesting problem and also an interesting hand to see what everyone would bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted March 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 Should the 5♦ bidder have used the STOP card and then you would be required to wait 10seconds before bidding? Sure, but my 15 seconds are longer than the required 10 anyway. In fact I had a different situation arise a couple years ago in a national swiss. My RHO opened with a preempt (using the stop card). I waited ten seconds and then passed. LHO raised to game and they played there. Declarer later played me for a key honor because (his own words) I took so long to pass over his preempt that I was likely to have a good hand. Evidently "the field" only waits 6-8 seconds over a preempt and not ten. Annoyingly, I did have the key honor, but I did not have any decision over his preempt and my pass was totally clear-cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 A ten second pause after a skip bid is mandatory, whether the warning is given (stop card used) or not. A significantly longer pause may be considered a break in tempo. As said, this is not an easy hand, so taking longer than ten seconds might not be considered a BIT. Taking less time that the opponents expect (because you are generally a fast bidder, and they don't know that) is not a BIT, but if you get bit :D by it, well, them's the breaks. What passes for logic at the bridge table often bears little or no resemblance to anything a logician would recognize. :P "Agonizing" over a decision with the intent to deceive opponents is illegal and unethical. If, however, your intent is to bring your (slow) tempo into line with what you think opponents will expect, I would say that's both legal and ethical. There is a danger, however, that the TD will not agree with your reasoning. :( And it wouldn't have helped in this situation anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 Given the pause, better to bid 6♣ than pass. Now, since RHO bailed you out with 6♦, you have an easy double. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Deleted - sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Declarer later played me for a key honor because (his own words) I took so long to pass over his preempt that I was likely to have a good hand. Evidently "the field" only waits 6-8 seconds over a preempt and not ten. Annoyingly, I did have the key honor, but I did not have any decision over his preempt and my pass was totally clear-cut. Most people don't realize how agonizingly long 10 seconds is when you're not actually doing anything. So even if they do hesitate after a skip bid, it's rarely the full 10 seconds expected of them. I'm pretty sure I don't last 10 seconds, either, but I do try to put on a show of pretending to think about something (this is also part of the skip bid regulation -- it shouldn't be obvious that you're just pausing because of the requirement). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 However, I'm generally a pretty fast bidder and tend not to agonize over these things. It only took me fifteen seconds or so to decide to bid 6♣ (obviously this might not be best, but that's the decision I came to). So I bid 6♣, passed back to RHO who bid 6♦! Now the funny problem is, I suspect that if I had agonized over my call for a minute or two (as some players would, faced with this situation) my RHO might have passed it out. If you also bid this quickly (confidently) when 6♣ is going down, won't you win from this situation on occasion? But agonizing over a decision when in fact I have already decided is unethical, right?Yes. Isn't there a published appeal from one of the NABCs involving Joel Wooldridge that directly addresses this. As I recall, as declarer he took some time to decide which spot card play would best deceive a defender. But, the time taken created a (foreseeable) impression that he was considering a "real" bridge problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianshark Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Yes, you can't really think for longer than you need to for the sake of trying to get him to pass if you think that his pass is better for you. But it seems wrong to conclude you have been fixed by your relatively quick thinking time. Your RHO is taking an inference at his own risk. And who's to say that his decision to balance wasn't a disastrous one for him. Maybe on another day you have an abbysmal hand and are hoping your opponents bid again, due to your quick analysis you bid it fairly quickly (which is at your own tempo) and your opponents incorrectly conclude that you have your bid and bid on which is a huge mistake for them. You are certainly not obliged to bid really slowly to tell your opponents that you don't have your bid. I think the point is, you have to bid to your own tempo whether you want them to bid on or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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