Some basic questions

[vuroth]

1. (1♠) 2♠ (4♠) X

 

What does the double mean?

 

2. 1♦ X P 2♦

 

What does 2♦ mean?

 

3. 1♠ P 2♠ P

P 2NT

 

What does 2NT mean?

 

4. (same as 3?)

1NT P 2♥ P

2♠ P P 2NT

 

What does 2NT mean?

 

5. [hv=d=w&v=b&s=s64hq9dkt763cak86]133|100|Scoring: MP

P P P ?[/hv]

 

6. Standard carding/leads. Opponents in 5♣. Partner lead the A♥, and dummy comes down:

 

[hv=d=w&v=b&s=s64hq9dkt763cak86]133|100|Scoring: MP

P P P ?[/hv]

 

Is my discard suit preference for ♠v♦? (I can never really find a good "standard carding" reference...)

[hanp]

1. I would assume values/penalty oriented.

 

2. Forcing, how forcing depends on agreement. Most here play forcing up to suit agreement, so 2H by doubler is forcing, 2H-2S is forcing, but 2H - 3H is non-forcing.

 

3. two places to play.

 

4. two places to play.

 

5. 1D?

 

6. yes.

[jdaming]

1) I would take the double as penalty. You have shown your hand and partner has decided to whack em. 4NT would be for your minor and p already knows about your ♥ you have shown your hand.

 

2) Cuebid forcing. Basically p is showing values opposite your double. He wants to keep game in the picture. This is his forcing bid that lets you know he has a nice hand.

 

3) I would assume p has a flat hand with foreword going values and a crappy ♠ suit.

 

4) Invite. If you have 3 spades and an acceptance bid the ♠ game otherwise the NT game.

 

5) I would open it but we really stretch to open 3rd so I assume we have balance here. I am quite against the standard here though as the "Rule of 15" tells you not to open it.

 

6) When in doubt here ask yourself what info partner wants most and give him that (or nothing) in this case I would think suit preference makes the most sense especially if giving ♠ pref

[hanp]

Please ignore the rule of 15 when you have a normal opening hand.

[jdaming]

I don't disagree that opening this is correct, but I think it is less "clearcut" than you make it seem. Qx is not great points for our opener. We are likely to have to be competeing over one of their major fits possibly to the 3 level so I think it is best to do so and I dislike the rule of 15 as much as any I was more trying to introduce one outside method of evaluation that will serve him well in many (not this one) situations.

[jillybean]

5) I would open it but we really stretch to open 3rd so I assume we have balance here.  I am quite against the standard here though as the "Rule of 15" tells you not to open it.

Is it really standard to use the 'ruleof15' when deciding to open a hand?

Some tell me I should be using all sorts of rules but so far I have avoided it, prefering to develop my own hand evaluation skills.

[quiddity]

1. Values. These should be useful on offense or defense (aces), so partner can either pass or bid depending on his hand.

 

2. "Please describe your hand further." At least invitational to game; maybe a hand which isn't sure of the best strain (4-4 in the majors), or maybe a good balanced hand without a diamond stopper. Or perhaps a strong single-suited hand which wants to establish a forcing auction.

 

3. Takeout/balancing, guarantees two possible places to play.

 

4. same.

 

5. The points seem to be evenly distributed and the opponents can probably out-compete you in a major suit. There's a "rule of 15": when you have a marginal opening bid decision in 4th seat, add your HCP to the number of spades in your hand. If the result is less than 15, pass.

 

6. I don't know about this one. Your play is only suit preference if it will be obvious to partner that attitude doesn't apply. I guess there's a possibility here that you want partner to continue hearts and force dummy to ruff, but it depends on the auction and on your hand.

[jdaming]

I strongly agree that developing hand eval is far more important than any (or any #) of rules. This is however I think a decent "guideline" for a beginner/intermediate to start at.

[mtvesuvius]

1. Cooperative Penalty

2. Cuebid, Forcing to Game for me...

3. 2 Places to Play (Sometimes called "Super-Unusual")

4. 2 Places to Play (Sometimes called "Super-Unusual")

5. 1♦, rule of 15 does not apply here... Besides, there are no rules in bridge.

6. Yes. I believe Kantar has discussed this in his books. Is there any other good use for your signal?

[helene_t]

The rule of 15 seems very conservative to me. An average hand has 10 points and 3.25 spades, so considering that partner's 2nd seat pass probably has a slightly higher average HCPs+spades than opps' 1st/3rd seat passes. So I would expect "rule of 13" to optimize the chance of opening when the par is positive and not when it is negative.

 

Then again, opps have the advantage that they know that they are in a aiming at a partscore because they both passed, while p doesn't know when we have a sub-minimum opening. So in practice something like "rule of 14" may be better.

[mikeh]

1. Penalty. Not interested in playing in one of your suits at the 5-level, and too much stuff to let them play undoubled. Since it is very unlikely, on the auction, that he has a pure trump stack, he implies some high cards in both minors (with high cards in only one, he'd be afraid it was yours, and hence not likely to take tricks). So you can pull, as the 2♠ bidder with an extreme hand.. but I would expect a pass 90% of the time, or more.

 

2. B/I players often have trouble responding to takeout doubles, but there is a very simple 'ladder' of responses, especially if the 1-level is available, as it (mostly) is in this scenario. A 1-level advance in a major shows 0-a poor 8 count.

A jump to 2 major is non-forcing and shows a decent 8 - 10 hcp (can be fewer with a long suit). A jump to the 3-level is typically played as a very long suit, with a weak hand (which may well make game opposite a useful double with Aces and shortness in opener's suit). A jump to game shows a good long suit, an expectation of making opposite a minimumm takeout double, but no slam interest.

 

Notrump bids are constructive, and range from 7+-10, for 1N (or 8-10), 11-12 for 2N and full opening for 3N.

 

Leaving aside club bids, all other 'good' hands have to be shown via the cuebid. The cue normally shows 11+ hcp. Advancer may have his own real suit, in which case he will have a gf hand, or he may have doubt about where to play, with invitational or better values. It is customary in NA to play that the cue bid establishes a forcing auction until the partnership has either reached game or had a suit bid and raised. Thus, if doubler bids 2♥, and advancer raises, this can be passed, but if advancer were to bid, say, 2♠, this is forcing one round.

 

3. Traditionally, this was used as minors, but these days is far more commonly played as 2 of the unbid suits... advancer has to be careful to bid the lower of two suits in which he is interested. Thus, with, say, 3=2=5=3 shape, he advances with 3♣, not 3♦. If he bids 3♦, the 2N bidder may and should 'correct' to 3♥ when holding a club/heart 2-suiter.

 

4. See 3.

 

5. I'd open, but would appreciate that there is a significant chance that we will be outbid. I use the Rule of 15, but not when I hold a normal hand.. I use to (more or less) to determine when to open 10/11 counts.

 

6. One common approach, when dummy has a stiff, is to play high to suggest a switch to the higher side suit, low to suggest the lower and middle to suggest 'keep them coming'.. which is, surprisingly often, a necessary defence.

[Finch]

As you see from the replies, they may be basic questions but you don't get uniform answers. My answers are:

 

1. Penalties. Partner is not expected to remove unless he is (at least) 6-6 in his suits.

 

2. I have at least invitational values, please do something to describe your hand further. Quite how far the auction is forced is a matter of agreement; the 'textbook standard' is that it is forcing until you have bid and raised a suit. So

 

1D x P 2D

P 2H P 2S

 

is forcing, but

1D x P 2D

P 2H P 3H is not

 

3. Two places to play, these can be any two suits. Usually 5-5, too weak to act on the first round. Less distributional hands make a protectice double.

 

4. This is not the same as (3), because it depends what you play

1NT P 2H 2S

as.

 

and

 

1NT P 2H 2NT

as.

 

I play the first as Michaels (5-5 in hearts and a minor), and the second as both minors.

 

That means 1NT P 2H P; 2S P P 2NT is any two suits, but weaker than on the first round.

 

However, if you don't have a way of showing one of the two-suiters the first time, it's that hand, any strength.

 

5. I have a sneaky feeling it's technically correct to pass, but I would never do so at matchpoints. You paid your table money to play bridge, not pass boards out...

 

6. This is a very complicated subject. In summary my answer is "no" but I can't face writing an essay on this now... just to make the point that there isn't an easy answer to this.

[vuroth]

Thanks, folks. Some background for the curious.

 

1. My partner and I are now on the same page. More importantly, we're apparently on the CORRECT same page.

 

2. I held a 3433 14 count. I almost bid 4♥, but decided that 2♦ might be safer. Partner bid 2♥, and I was happy to raise to game.

 

I guess what had me uncertain is that, even if partner is, say, 4315, 4H might still be best (my diamonds were KJ9)

 

3 and 4 did not come up at the table. Partner did hold a 2425 hand over 4, and we were discussing that we should probably be IN the auction, but weren't sure of the best way to do so.

 

5. I got suckered. I almost always bid rule of 20 hands in 4th position, and this is a 21. Being an ACBL slowball game, I foolishly decided that pass would be the standard action. Of course, dealer's pass at our table was anti-field and winning, so it wasn't a good board. Maybe I was just lazy. :)

 

6. Declarer had AKQ of both spades and diamonds, so my signal was totally irrelevant on that hand. Partner and I are talking it over, in case it comes up again. I just wanted some validation that what I had in my head was sane.

 

Thanks.

 

V

[hanp]

Warren, don't worry about what the standard action is. Just play good bridge and you will win your share.

[JLOL]

I wouldnt open the 4th seat hand.

[Lobowolf]

6. Yes. I believe Kantar has discussed this in his books. Is there any other good use for your signal?

Yes, but suit preference is the most common.

[hanp]

You are such a junior.

 

Wait, you pass?

[barmar]

In #4, the 2NT bidder shouldn't have good ♥. If he did, he could have doubled the transfer bid to show them.

[Codo]

1. penalty, I may think to run with a defenceless 7/7 hand but not with much less.

 

2. In SEF they have a great describtion for this bid: 8-10 witrh both majors, so that partner with 43 in the majors can take the right one, or any hand with 11+ HCPS and no clear other bid (like 3 NT f.e.)

More and more play it as a transfer and the majority outside France as "strong".

 

3. take out to the minors.

 

4. same as 3.

 

5. This is not clear cut. I have no majors and the queen of heart is a doubtful value. Game is close to impossible and there is a big chance that I will lose the battle for the partscore. All this is true, but it is still an opener.

 

6. Yes, you give suit preference. I believe that this is best in many situations, but of course no signal works always.

[hanp]

On the first hand we will double with pretty much any good hand without a fit, and it really doesn't promise that good a spade holding. I think partner should definitely pull with a 6-6.

[vuroth]

In #4, the 2NT bidder shouldn't have good ♥. If he did, he could have doubled the transfer bid to show them.

Agree, but this doesn't preclude a mediocre 4 card or even a poor 5 card suit, right?

[Gerben42]

The rule of 15 seems very conservative to me. An average hand has 10 points and 3.25 spades, so considering that partner's 2nd seat pass probably has a slightly higher average HCPs+spades than opps' 1st/3rd seat passes. So I would expect "rule of 13" to optimize the chance of opening when the par is positive and not when it is negative.

 

FYI, the average hand in 4th seat has about 15 HCP, perhaps slightly less if you include the effect of opening preempts by the first three seats.

 

http://www.geocities.com/gerben47/bridge/hcpstats.html

[P_Marlowe]

#1 penalty, if you want to ask partner to describe his hand

further, bud 4NT

#2 majors, at least 4-4 with inv. values, you may change

majors to 2 places to play

#3 unusal, 5-4 / 4-4 shape possible / most likely depending on

the specific vulnerability

#4 yes

#5 1D, I may only consider pass, if we play a light opening

style

#6 dont understand the question, but it is common to agree,

that your duiscard is suit preference, low for diamonds,

high for spades, but attidude makes still some sense

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[y66]

6. Woolsey discusses a similar situation in Partnership Defense:

 

[hv=d=s&v=n&n=st92hqdak862cat92&e=skq8ht864dt43c743]266|200|West opens 1H.

North overcalls 2D. South bids 3C.

North 4C. South 5C.

all pass.

[/hv]

West leads the ace of hearts. What do you play?

 

Obviously, you desperately want partner to shift to a spade. If you consider the normal rules to be in effect (attitude), you would play the four of hearts, showing disinterest in hearts, and interest in the logical shift, spades. On the other hand, if you conclude that both you and your partner can work out that a heart continuation can not be correct, it would be more logical for your signal to be a suit-preference signal, in which case you play the ten.

 

When this problem was presented to an expert panel, 24 voted for the four, 23 for the ten. At least half a dozen well known partnerships disagreed on their answers to this problem.

 

My own feelings are that the four is correct. It may not be easy for partner to know that a heart continuation can't be right, since he doesn't know your trump holding. Also, a diamond shift doesn't make much sense so there is no need for a suit-preference signal. But when so many experts disagree, this kind of problem is certainly worth thinking about.

If you decide that suit preference applies exclusively when dummy has a singleton, you can't encourage a continuation of hearts when you are worried that partner will blow a trick if he shifts to the obvious suit or when you want partner to force dummy to ruff, for example, when dummy has xx of trumps and you have Kxx.

[barmar]

In #4, the 2NT bidder shouldn't have good ♥.  If he did, he could have doubled the transfer bid to show them.

Agree, but this doesn't preclude a mediocre 4 card or even a poor 5 card suit, right?

Yes, that was my point. His 2-suiter may include ♥, but if it does he probably has at most one top honor in the suit.