Finch Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 [hv=d=s&v=b&s=sakj64hj9752d10cq6]133|100|Scoring: IMP1♠ P 2♦ P2♥ P 3♣* P ?*read text[/hv] Playing a "friendly" match between two teams of 16, imps, you have this hand.You open 1♠ Here are three different auctions 1.You open 1♠. Partner responds 2♦ in an Acol or SA context (not FG)You rebid 2♥Partner bids 3♣, FSF to game What do you bid? 2.You open 1♠. Partner responds 2♦, forcing to gameYou rebid 2♥. Partner bids 3♦, showing a good diamond suit. 3♣ from partner would have been fourth suit forcing. What do you bid? 3.You open 1♠. Partner responds 2♦, forcing to gameYou rebid 2♥, artificial, denying six spades and being either 12-14/18-19 balanced, or 5-4 with spades and hearts/clubs, or a minimum 5-5 without good suits.Partner bids 3♦ showing very good diamonds and showing no interest in whether you have a side suit or not (partner's alternatives were 2♠ relay, 2NT showing three spades, 3♣ and 3♥ natural) What do you bid? Is your answer different on these different auctions? (Yes, there were 8 tables, but I think every auction was one of the three above, with the majority being the first) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 #1 3H Depends on your agreement, but for me 3H showes 5-5, since I have 5-5, thats what I bid #2 3H, again showing 5-5, 3H describes my hand best, and I dont have a club stopper #3 3H, should show the 5-5, min hand? Again, I dont have a club stopper, and no diamond support. Since I am not familar with the agreements of this scenario I am not 100% sure, but if 3H showes the min. hand with 5-5, I think 3H is best. So my answer is always the same: 3H. In the scenario #3 responder knowes most after a 3H bid, because3H limits the hand, which is not really the case with #1 (2H being forcing,even in an Acol context?) and #2. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Nr 1: I have no diamond support, no club stopper and a fifth heart, this is a wtp 3 HEart. Nr 2: 3 HEarts seems to describe my hand still well. In both cases 3 NT could work much better, rightsiding the queen of clubs in case we have no major fit and partner Axx in clubs. But I hope that 3 HEart works better in the long run. Nr 3: This is no wtp at all. Now 3 Spade is my choice. Partner is not interessted in my side suit and I have denied a sixth spade already. So I show my really good spade suit. Maybe 3 NT had worked better, but I cannot bring myself to make a bid which shows 12-14 balanced with this hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 1 & 2: seems like an easy 3♥. 3: from your description, pard seems to have a slammish diamond 1 suiter. Since my hand is yucky for slam purposes, I'll just make the most discouraging bid available: 3NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 3NT on your system frances, on the others I will go the 3♥ route. EDIT: errr I am bidding 3NT to DENY ♦ support, if your Meta-agreements are that NT bids are to show balanced hand, hence support, I would rather bid 3♥ again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Thanks for an interesting post: I'm torn between bidding 3♥ and 3NT In favor of 3N 3NT is our most likely gameI think that it will play better with a club lead coming in to my handYes, I would prefer either Axx or Kxx in Clubs, but beggers can't be chosers In favor of 3♥ I have the right shapeI won't feel so bad about showing the club stop I suspect that I would bid 3♥ in auction 1 3N in auctions 2 and 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricK Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 In 1 and 2 I bid 3♥ expecting the auction to often continue 3♠ 3NT. In 3 I bid 3NT. If partner isn't interested in my side suits, I'm not telling him about it (although it depends to some extent about what "good suits" mean in this context) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 1. a wtp (honestly) 3♥ :ph34r: 2. I'm not sure I understand the method: in particular the use to which 3♣ would be put... would it specifically show a weak, stopperless club holding, or some very, very good hand? I assume so, but (as I said) I am not sure I understand the method. If that assumption is correct, then I have to ask whether there is a systemic inference that partner will usually hold a club value (or shortness) for 3♦. After all, he could bid 3♣ to elicit an informed diamond preference. Anyway, all of that was musing to see if I could rationalize a 3N call, but I can't. 3♥ it is, and this wasn't a wtp. 3. Ugh... tiap (this is a problem): I choose 3♠.. partner can do with it what he/she wants. At least he or she knows that I am bidding a chunky spade suit so can probably infer that I am 5-5 or 5-4 with a minimum unsuited for 3N.. and that seems to fit the bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted March 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Well problem (2) I made up, I don't play the method, but I think it's standard English 2/1 style still to play fourth suit forcing. Perhaps I should give partner's hand in a different thread and see what you bid over the 3H "wtp"... Partner hasxKxAKQJ9xxJxx obviously the only making game is 3NT. I'm am not convinced that 3h is the "wtp" answer on the first and second auctions. I think there's quite a lot to be said for 3S. We got there on auction (3), but this wasn't really meant as an advertisement for our complex methods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y66 Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 3. Responder is not interested in my side suit (hearts). I can bid 3H to clarify my shape or I can bid 3S to clarify my spade holding. I think 3S is more helpful for purposes of choosing between 3N and game or slam in diamonds. So, 3S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtvesuvius Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 1. wtp 3♥2. A bit tougher, but still a fairly easy 3♥.3. I will bid 3♥ to show my 5-5... From this partner knows 10 of my cards, and can choose to do what he wishes with it. I have at most 2♦ now, and I think partner should be playing NT to protect and tenaces he has. Conclusion: 3♥ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Well problem (2) I made up, I don't play the method, but I think it's standard English 2/1 style still to play fourth suit forcing. Perhaps I should give partner's hand in a different thread and see what you bid over the 3H "wtp"... Partner hasxKxAKQJ9xxJxx obviously the only making game is 3NT. I'm am not convinced that 3h is the "wtp" answer on the first and second auctions. I think there's quite a lot to be said for 3S. We got there on auction (3), but this wasn't really meant as an advertisement for our complex methods. In nr 2: When you bid 3 NT after partners "wtp" 3 HEart bid, what will that show? As you bid 4sf but without being interessted in the majors, the only possible hand can be a hand without a club stopper. The only question is: Do you need a full or half a stopper from partner? Or is 4 sf forcing followed by 3 NT a totally different hand and it shows........? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 2. I'm not sure I understand the method: in particular the use to which 3♣ would be put... would it specifically show a weak, stopperless club holding, or some very, very good hand? It would show a hand without another good bid, so prototypically a 2353 shape without a club stop. It would never be used in preference to a descriptive forcing bid, regardless of strength. I think this is an area where teminology varies between different countries. I (and Frances, I assume) would regard the primary meaning of "Fourth Suit Forcing" as "I want you to describe your hand.". This meaning readily translates to an already game-forcing situation such as this. Do others view it as closer to "I want my next bid to be forcing"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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