andy_h Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Sitting south at All vul, 2nd seat.RHO preempts with 3♠ [hv=d=e&v=b&s=shxdajt987xxcq7xx]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 This is far from a wtp? We want to bid... we REALLY want to bid, but can we afford to? If we could play adjective bridge, we have a good 'preemptive 5♦', but they don't allow that in real life or online. Bidding here is a distortion that may well induce partner to go wrong, and which may in any event merely make our next guess even more painful. Imagine bidding 4♦ and having partner double 4♠. Accordingly, I opt for the pass, and hope (pray?) that the auction times out well for my next call. I know that passing and then reopening 5♦ allows LHO two chances to do the right thing, and that is normally anathema, but I surely can't pass throughout and bidding now is too misleading. I expect to be in a minority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
movingon Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 I like Mike's thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 I have an easy pull of partner's double of 4♠ whether I start with 4♦ or pass, but I am less comfortable about partner doubling 5♠ or 6♠. I will pass, there should be a fair chance of it going 4♠ and back to me, then I can bid 5♦ and partner will be well placed to make a decision, whether LHO bids 5♠ or not. If partner bids 5♥ over LHO's 4♠ I think I will try 6♦. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 I'll pass wtp? If LHO bids, we get to bid 5♦ later. If pard bids, we have an easy 5 as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanp Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 I don't dare to pass. I will bid 4D and hope that my 8-4 shape makes up for my lack in HCP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoi5 Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 I'm very tempted to pass. If I bid 4♦ I'll have to continue bidding diamonds over everything partner bids. I doubt the auction will finish here so I pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkDean Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Why do I never seem to hear anybody mention non-leaping michaels when a hand like this is posted? I think this is a hard problem. I would bid 4♦, definitely pulling partner's double of 4♠. I used to pass hands like this, but a partner I respect always bids, and it seemed to me his decisions worked out better than mine on average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 It is hard to pass, but I will do it and bid 5 ♦ next round. When I missed a cold 7 Diamond and they just play 3 Spade- bad luck next board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotShot Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 The questions is what is the agreed meaning of 4♦ and 5♦. If you play that jump overcalls (even over preempts) are weak and nonforcing, than it's a simple 5♦ bid. But I doubt that this is the standard treatment. Usually 4♦ should show a stronger hand (=> more defensive values), so the standard bid has to be pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 I would definitely bid 4♦ at the table, but I wonder if pass followed by 5♦ (if it doesn't passout, and assuming partner will be able to tell what we have) is the right action? Maybe this is a good hand for a simulation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_h Posted March 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 This is far from a wtp? We want to bid... we REALLY want to bid, but can we afford to? If we could play adjective bridge, we have a good 'preemptive 5♦', but they don't allow that in real life or online. Bidding here is a distortion that may well induce partner to go wrong, and which may in any event merely make our next guess even more painful. Imagine bidding 4♦ and having partner double 4♠. Accordingly, I opt for the pass, and hope (pray?) that the auction times out well for my next call. I know that passing and then reopening 5♦ allows LHO two chances to do the right thing, and that is normally anathema, but I surely can't pass throughout and bidding now is too misleading. I expect to be in a minority.This was exactly my thinking as well. In that I really really wanted to bid but partner will paint a totally different hand for us (for a typical 4♦ hand). It just felt a bit weird to me that's all, in that not bidding 4♦ now (but passing) and coming back in later with 5♦ later gives the opponents more chances to do the right thing. But I don't know how 'bad' (if at all) it is to bid 4♦ directly (and then remove a possible X by partner of 4♠) as we could still be the one doing a sac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 I would pass because no bid is accurate, and I don't find it a very hard decision to make. In general I hate to depend on the other players to keep it alive for me, but the odds this gets passed our are so low. By passing then bidding 5♦ I create a fair picture of tons of shape and not much strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Its very difficult to quantify these types of hands. What is the cutoff for bidding and passing? I think everyone would bid if the ♦J were the K. I would also bid 4♦ with AQTxxxxx or if I had a little more in clubs. I'll pass this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianshark Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 My main concern with passing hands like this is that the auction may be above the 5-level by the time it comes back to us. Eg. Partner may have a similar hand with hearts and waltz in on the 5-level over 4♠. If that happens, not only would I be scared to bid more in case it's void opposite void, I'm not even sure partner won't assume my new suit bids aren't fitted. I think it might be better to get your suit off your chest as early as possible. Once I bid, I'll pull a penalty double to 5♦, but any doubling higher than that then I'm just going to pass and hope it's a misfit deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keylime Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Part of me really wants to bid 4NT here, but I am going to resist the urge and bid a disciplined pass to await further developments. What I'm hoping for, is 4♠ from LHO, and pard finds a double. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skjaeran Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 5♦ would show a STRONG hand for me (never preempt vs a preempt), and even 4♦ shows a (far) better hand than what I've got. So there's no bid available for this hand, and thus it's an easy pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy_Scot Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Can someone please tell me what WTP means? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 What's The Problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 On the actual hand I would pass and hope to bid later. As a side question, if you pass, LHO bids 6♠ and partner passes, will you bid 7♦? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 4D is an impossible bid for me as I play that as showing Ds an Hs. (It seems interesting that no other poster has that agreement). So, its 5D or nothing. As 5D requires a better hand, I will pass at this stage and hope to come in later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 4D is an impossible bid for me as I play that as showing Ds an Hs. (It seems interesting that no other poster has that agreement). So, its 5D or nothing. As 5D requires a better hand, I will pass at this stage and hope to come in later. I have the same agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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