Professional Bridge

[JoAnneM]

Why isn't there a professional bridge organization like the PGA for golf? Not that I am advocating it, but I can think of all kinds of advantages for there being one. On the other hand maybe the pros don't want to become organized because then they might become regulated? Just curious.

 

Also, what's the deal with people not putting their names on their convention cards?

[rogerclee]

The ACBL tried this many years ago, requiring that professional players register. I'm not sure about the details of it, but I hear that it didn't work for a large number of reasons.

[Gerben42]

Also, what's the deal with people not putting their names on their convention cards?

 

I guess they want to use the CC with every partner, so they don't want to write down the names so they don't have to fill it in twice? That's the only reason I can think of... I think it's very annoying!

[awm]

In most individual sports like golf, tennis, or poker, professional players make most of their money by winning (or placing) in competition and taking home the prizes. This means everyone knows who the pros are, and the details of how they earn their living are more or less public.

 

In contrast, bridge professionals make most of their money through private contracts to play as their sponsor's partner or on their sponsor's team. Often it is not in the best interest of either the player or the sponsor to reveal the details of these contracts. Even determining who is paying whom can sometimes be difficult in these cases.

 

So I don't think it's really a similar situation.

[the hog]

In most individual sports like golf, tennis, or poker, professional players make most of their money by winning (or placing) in competition and taking home the prizes. This means everyone knows who the pros are, and the details of how they earn their living are more or less public.

 

In contrast, bridge professionals make most of their money through private contracts to play as their sponsor's partner or on their sponsor's team. Often it is not in the best interest of either the player or the sponsor to reveal the details of these contracts. Even determining who is paying whom can sometimes be difficult in these cases.

 

So I don't think it's really a similar situation.

No Adam, most of the top tennis, golf etc players make their money through sposorship. You might know who they are, but you won't kno how much they make. Federer , for example, makes far more through sponsorship than prizemoney.

[whereagles]

Well, Federer has around 42$ million prizemoney so far. Does that mean he makes like 10x as much from sponsoring? :)

[RichMor]

Well, Federer has around 42$ million prizemoney so far. Does that mean he makes like 10x as much from sponsoring? :)

Probably.

 

Every time Federer wins a tournament he gets big prize money.

 

Every time his face appears in a television or print commercial he gets a little royalty money.

 

Every year he gets money for wearing some logo on his tennis clothes, equipment, and water bottle.

[Aberlour10]

To compare sponsorships in golf or tennis with bridge one is like to compare "apples & pears". The determination and motivation behind them are completely different. In my opinion, BPA = Bridge Professionals Association would have only sense and need if there were a clear structured and organized bridge tour like PGA or ATP Tour, but it seems for me something like this will not happen in forseeable future. So I agree with Adam's view, the privacy and discretion are for bridge professionals and their sponsors much more important than the need to organize themselves.

 

Robert

[Apollo81]

I can think of all kinds of advantages for there being one.

such as?

[mikeh]

Why isn't there a professional bridge organization like the PGA for golf? Not that I am advocating it, but I can think of all kinds of advantages for there being one. On the other hand maybe the pros don't want to become organized because then they might become regulated? Just curious.

 

Also, what's the deal with people not putting their names on their convention cards?

I don't think it is a fear of being regulated, but it may well be a combination of not seeing what the advantages are for the pros and who picks up the cost?

 

Most pros make very little money... few can depend solely on bridge to provide a decent income. For every Meckwell, there are dozens, or more, of 'pros' who earn a few bucks teaching or playing at the club or the local sectional. Their concerns are far different, as is their ability to pay for the dubious benefits of belonging to an organization.

 

Add to this that establishment of any organization is going to foster 'illegal' pros, and perhaps engender a lot of controversy over qualifications, rates of pay and so on, and it seems to me that the idea isn't worth the hassle.

 

And where do we draw the line? I have occasionally been added to a pro team at a Regional... the pro and client come into town and want to pick up either 2 or 3 players for a team... one to switch off with the client... sometimes I got paid, other times I was happy to play with a true WC pro and just got entry fees...that is a common arrangement in many Regionals... would I have to register?

 

Or the player who has a regular club game where he gets $25 or $50 for an afternoon game once a week? And so on.

[jdonn]

Can I ask why anyone cares if someone doesn't have his or her name on his or her convention card? Maybe I live in a hole or something, but every now and then I'm just shocked by finding out what bugs people.

[mikeh]

Can I ask why anyone cares if someone doesn't have his or her name on his or her convention card? Maybe I live in a hole or something, but every now and then I'm just shocked by finding out what bugs people.

While it is not one of my pet peeves, I do think that one should put one's name on a C-C. I believe that this is technically required, and what does it cost?

 

Bridge players, as a group, are notoriously rude, and this is another instance of that attitude. Putting one's name on the C-C is a way of introducing oneself.

 

I had the pleasure, when playing in Verona in 2006, of playing against a couple of players I 'knew' from BBO, and would not have known this except for the fact that I looked at their C-C on arriving at the table.

 

I think that there are many little courtesies that we can extend to each other in life, that make life more enjoyable, and while individually, these may be trivial, I think that there can be a cumulative effect. Sort of like waving an acknowledgment when another driver yields the right of way, or stops to let one, as a pedestrian, cross the road. Or holding the door open for someone, etc.

 

Of course, this may be all nonsense... it depends on one's point of view... I was brought up in a society that prized politeness a bit more than is common in NA. It had its own, different, problems:)

[keylime]

I agree with Mike - I like knowing whom I'm playing with.

[jdonn]

Maybe it's from starting to play so young and being so sick of "it's so nice to see young people playing bridge!" about fifty thousand times a day. Also the "you would be so nice for my granddaughter!" comments, notwithstanding that the granddaughter could have been anywhere from 6 to 38 years old.

[hrothgar]

Maybe it's from starting to play so young and being so sick of "it's so nice to see young people playing bridge!" about fifty thousand times a day. Also the "you would be so nice for my granddaughter!" comments, notwithstanding that the granddaughter could have been anywhere from 6 to 38 years old.

BTW, did anyone else notice that "Bridge" was featured prominently on last night's "How I Met Your Mother"?

 

(Yes, I do confess, I'm hooked on that silly, silly show)

[ArtK78]

I was once penalized 25% of a board because my partnership did not have two identical convention cards on the table as required by regulations. We had one convention card on the table. The opps called the TD about an opening lead that I made (it was an incredibly stupid directors call - the declarer was just upset at his result and he was trying to somehow blame us for failing to properly explain a perfectly normal lead). The TD took it upon himself to penalize us for not having 2 convention cards on the table.

 

This was the first of a 4 session (2 qualifying and 2 final) NAP District level game. The penalty had no impact on the outcome, as we qualified and the penalty became part of the carryover so it had virtually no effect on the ultimate score.

 

So, as far as having both names on the convention card is concerned, you never know when a TD will decide to penalize you for some minor breach of the regulations.

[Hanoi5]

"you would be so nice for my granddaughter!"

 

Is being poor or ugly the reason why I didn't get this? Does it have to do with religion? Could it be cultural?

 

Is there a link to 'yesterday's 'How I Met Your Mother' episode?

[mikeh]

Maybe it's from starting to play so young and being so sick of "it's so nice to see young people playing bridge!" about fifty thousand times a day. Also the "you would be so nice for my granddaughter!" comments, notwithstanding that the granddaughter could have been anywhere from 6 to 38 years old.

BTW, did anyone else notice that "Bridge" was featured prominently on last night's "How I Met Your Mother"?

 

(Yes, I do confess, I'm hooked on that silly, silly show)

On a completely irrelevant digression, anyone wonder if Cayne's obsession with bridge, and the role it may have played in Bear Stearns, will impact the game? No news is bad news? A game that arguably cost the world economy many billions of dollars should attract some attention :P

[Hanoi5]

Even bad publicity can be good publicity.

 

I found the link:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEkm5UnfoXY&feature=related

 

They mention the game but never actually 'play it'. At least the mention it so I figure it's a win!

[the hog]

Maybe it's from starting to play so young and being so sick of "it's so nice to see young people playing bridge!" about fifty thousand times a day. Also the "you would be so nice for my granddaughter!" comments, notwithstanding that the granddaughter could have been anywhere from 6 to 38 years old.

Now what if grandaughter were a stunning blonde nymphomaniac with big knockers, whose father owned a pub?

[JoAnneM]

Advantages to having a pro organization:

 

1. I would know where to go if I wanted to hire one.

 

2. I would know who to contact if I wanted to set up speakers for a tournament I was managing.

 

3. I could look at the credentials of various pros available for hire, the tournaments they were planning on attending, and their negotiable rate schedule (see #1). Of course pros with booked clients probably wouldn't be on that list.

 

4. New pros could find jobs!

 

5. A rating program by clients would provide feedback, especially for the newer pros, and would help build their clientele.

 

I don't see why there would have to be any rigorous testing or qualifications - just a hefty annual fee. With a resume required the chaff would quickly fall by the wayside.

 

Disadvantages to a pro organization:

 

1. Established pros would probably resent it, at least for a while.

 

2. "Fake" or "wannabe" pros would soon be exposed - bad for them.

 

Disclaimer - I am not a wannabe pro, nor am I looking to hire a pro. However I have dealt behind the scenes at Regionals with lining up pros to speak. They have always been a charming and generous group.

[CSGibson]

Actually, speaking to the points in Joanne's post above, there probably is a niche available for an organisation like that, or even for a private person who wants to design a service for pros to help attract clients (advertising), arrange lectures and lessons, etc. Sort of like an agent, taking a percentage of referrals for the work involved in keeping bridge pros working.

[jdonn]

I really don't think you have named any reason at all that established pros would want to start or join such an organization. And without them there is no credible organization.

[Phil]

(Note: Original quote reordered)

 

Advantages to having a pro organization:

 

1.  I would know where to go if I wanted to hire one. and 3.  I could look at the credentials of various pros available for hire, the tournaments they were planning on attending, and their negotiable rate schedule (see #1).  Of course pros with booked clients probably wouldn't be on that list. and 4.  New pros could find jobs!

 

Possible for some lower level gigs but I bet this would be negligible. The high profile assignments wouldn't change at all.

2.  I would know who to contact if I wanted to set up speakers for a tournament I was managing.

 

Good reason, although in reality I'm pretty sure there are existing relationships between tournament managers and pro players that wouldn't need a registry.

 

5.  A rating program by clients would provide feedback, especially for the newer pros, and would help build their clientele.

 

Eh, word of mouth would suffice I think.

 

I don't see why there would have to be any rigorous testing or qualifications - just a hefty annual fee.

 

Hefty annual fee for what?

 

With a resume required the chaff would quickly fall by the wayside. and 2.  "Fake" or "wannabe" pros would soon be exposed - bad for them

 

I would suggest the chaff doesn't get hired much. You seem to be trying to address a non-existent problem.

 

Disadvantages to a pro organization:

 

1.  Established pros would probably resent it, at least for a while.

 

Longer than 'awhile' I'm afraid.

[CSGibson]

I really don't think you have named any reason at all that established pros would want to start or join such an organization. And without them there is no credible organization.

I can think of some reasons:

 

Group benefits for members (negotiating health care, disability, etc that the "fee" goes towards)

 

Advertising (give each a private page with a calendar, acting as a go-between for pros and area clubs/tournaments)

 

Basically, pros would have an added safety net, and would be able to farm out some of the responsibility for selling themselves, which is not necessarily something that comes easily to all bridge pros.

 

A lot of Joanne's reasons seem to be reasons that someone would come to a service as a client, rather than a pro, but any organization would have to meet needs for both.