mr1303 Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 [hv=d=s&v=n&n=sxhj10xxxxdxxxxxcx&s=saxhk9xdakqj10cakx]133|200|Scoring: MP[/hv] How do you get these hands to a sensible contract? You don't play the Kokish relay (so if you want to show 25-26 balanced you have to bid 2C 2D 3NT). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 2♣-2♦ (or 2♥ negative)3NT - 4♦ 4♥ - pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 There doesn't seem to be much choice other than what methods would dictate for south to show a game forcing balanced hand and north to place it in 4♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1303 Posted March 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Well what about 6D? It appears to have reasonable play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtvesuvius Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Well what about 6D? It appears to have reasonable play. Except when the AQ♥ are offside or ♥ are 3-1... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Well what about 6D? It appears to have reasonable play. It's an ok contract, and opposite many hands could be absolutely cold. But north has no reasonable way to look. If you were playing kokish then we could talk. It's like posting AKxx xx KQx xxxx, telling us our partner opened 1NT but we don't play stayman, then asking us how to bid to a reasonable contract. I would say I bid 3NT. If you say but our only game could be in a 4-4 spade fit then I would reply play stayman! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Who wants to be in 6 ♦ when you can be in 6 ♥? I would be in 4 HEart, expecting to make 12 tricks quite often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1303 Posted March 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Well, when the traveller came round over half the room had bid and made 6D. I was wondering if there was some future in rebidding 3D after 2D? After all, you do have 150 honours. Especially since 2C 2D 3NT is such a bad bidding sequence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 I don't play kokish nor anything, I just use 2♣-2♦-2NT as 23-31 forcing. Preempting yourself is never a good idea. You won't find 6♦ on this hand with anything but a strong club opening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Normal methods: 2♣ 2♦3NT 6♥ North has 8 losers and a 25-26 balanced hand has about 7-8 cover cards. So it's a slam, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Normal methods: 2♣ 2♦3NT 6♥ North has 8 losers and a 25-26 balanced hand has about 7-8 cover cards. So it's a slam, I guess. And how do you know that 3 or 4 of those cover cards aren't in black suits? In fact, isn't that where they are most likely to be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 You don't. The nr. of cover cards is just an average. There is the usual statistical dispersion around it. If you have bids that allow you to gauge to which side the dispersion lies (red/black suits), by all means use them. Since I don't think that's an easy task using normal methods, I'll just play the average game and go for slam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 You don't. The nr. of cover cards is just an average. There is the usual statistical dispersion around it. If you have bids that allow you to gauge to which side the dispersion lies (red/black suits), by all means use them. Since I don't think that's an easy task using normal methods, I'll just play the average game and go for slam. Isn't that my point? The 'average game' would suggest that on average partner has too many cover cards in the black suits and not many in the red suits, so would suggest signing off. You just made a reasonable argument, but then used it to reach totally the opposite conclusion that it suggested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 No, no, that's not it. The averaging already takes into account that cover cards may fall into the wrong places. When you say "xxx cover cards", means it will effectively cover xxx of the 1 or 2-suiter's losers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Rather than argue what the expected number of cover cards are for a balanced hand of about 25 HCP, all we need to do is look at the actual hand. The big hand fits almost perfectly with the red suited hand, and 6♥ is still less than 50% (♥Q onside and hearts not 4-0, and no adverse ruff). Change the hand to: KQJKQAKQJTKQJ A 27 HCP hand. The bidding might be the same. How good is 6♥ now? On the actual hand, 6♦ is a worse contract than 6♥, in that you can be set anytime hearts are 3-1 (except when the A is singleton) or 4-0 if the 4 card holding is on lead. Even if you do not suffer a heart ruff, you still need the ♥Q onside (unless you play for 2-2 hearts with the ♥A onside and get it). I would expect to arrive at a 4♥ contract. The fact that almost all of the pairs arrived at and made 6♦ is very surprising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldman5757 Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Well, when the traveller came round over half the room had bid and made 6D. I was wondering if there was some future in rebidding 3D after 2D? After all, you do have 150 honours. Especially since 2C 2D 3NT is such a bad bidding sequence.I expect that is exactly what happened. If S rebids 3♦, N jumps to 5♦, and now, S will surely try 6 ♦, and get lucky. I'd be in 4♥. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benlessard Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Not a good slam, you can get ruffed at trick 2 in 6H & in 6D plus you need the QH in RHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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