soldatoJ Posted May 9, 2004 Report Share Posted May 9, 2004 How to find out the acutally distribution after open 1D with 45/54/55?for example, 1♦-1♥2♣-2♠(normal treatment of 4th suit FG) 1♦-1♠2♣-2♥(normal treatment of 4th suit FG) 1♦-2♣(normal treatment of 2/1 suit, FG)(or better don't play a Natural respond of this 2♣?) or(Assume with partner's suit short, may be 1NT if suitable)say xAT9KJxx(x)AQxx(x) 1♦-1♠/♥1N-2♣(normal treatment of new minor forcing) 1♣-1♥/♠1N-2♦(normal treatment of new minor forcing) how to distinguish from xx45/xx54/xx55/2245/2254 ? Besides, I do not like very complicated method :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishovnbg Posted May 9, 2004 Report Share Posted May 9, 2004 Hi soldatoJ!The problem about distribution is last one you have in your sequences. You didn't show yet have you stopper in 4th suit, support in p suit and min/max of your hand, which in first 2 cases is in wide range of 11-17hcp. Only after same determination, which is important for decision about type and level of contract, you can use some relays for distribution. Method wich I can offer you is: first step show "unusual variant", in your case longer ♣, while other steps show distribution with ♦, by NoHiLo method. Example: 1♦-1♥2♣-2♠3♣{12-14, deny 3♥ or stopper ♠} - 3♦{relay for distribution}? 3♥: 5+♣-4+♦3♠: 5+♦-4+♣, "No" sing/void3NT: 5+♦-4+♣, ♠ sing/void - "Hi"4♣: 5+♦-4+♣, ♥ sing/void -"Lo" 1♦-1♥2♣-2♠3♣{12-14, deny 3♥ or stopper ♠} - 3♦{relay for distribution}3♥: 5+♣-4+♦ -> 3♠{relay for distribution}? 3NT: No singl/void4♣: ♠ sing/void - "Hi"4♦: ♥ sing/void - "Lo" Misho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soldatoJ Posted May 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2004 what about 55? can distinguish below 3NT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishovnbg Posted May 9, 2004 Report Share Posted May 9, 2004 what about 55? can distinguish below 3NT? Try MOSCITO, only 500 pages :( .Misho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted May 9, 2004 Report Share Posted May 9, 2004 Suppose the auction starts 1D - 1N - 2C, where 2C could be (5+ Diamonds and 4+ Clubs) or 5+ Clubs and 4+ Diamonds. [Note, playing MOSCITO, you face exactly this same dilemma following 1S - 1N 2C] We use the following 2D = to play 2H = Relay, and then 2S = 4 Diamonds and 5+ Clubs2N = 5+ Diamonds and 5+ Clubs3C = 4 Clubs and 5+ Diamonds, high shortage3D = 2=2=5=4 shape3H = 3=1=5=4 shape3S = 2=1=6=4 shape3N = 3=0=6=4 shape After 1D - 1N2C - 2H2N - 3C = Relay and then 3D = High Shortage3H = 1=1=5=6 / 1=1=6=5 shape3S = 2=1=5=5 shape3N = 3=0=5=5 shape4C = 2=0=5=6 shape4D = 2=0=6=5 shape You have the option to shift this all down by one step if you use 2D as a relay, however, you need to be able to play 2D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted May 9, 2004 Report Share Posted May 9, 2004 I think you made a small mistake Richard: 3♦ = high shortage, and all other bids are 1 step lower alrealy, ending at 4♦ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted May 9, 2004 Report Share Posted May 9, 2004 what about 55? can distinguish below 3NT? Try MOSCITO, only 500 pages :D .Misho Its only 150 pages Misho :( :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishovnbg Posted May 9, 2004 Report Share Posted May 9, 2004 what about 55? can distinguish below 3NT? Try MOSCITO, only 500 pages B) .Misho Its only 150 pages Misho :( :D Hi Frederick!With this castrated version of MOSCITO you can't show some important distributions like 9=4=0=0 with opps all time silent :( Misho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted May 9, 2004 Report Share Posted May 9, 2004 what about 55? can distinguish below 3NT? Try MOSCITO, only 500 pages B) .Misho Its only 150 pages Misho :( :D Hi Frederick!With this castrated version of MOSCITO you can't show some important distributions like 9=4=0=0 with opps all time silent :( Misho do YOU really NEED TO??? Common Misho, you know better than this B) Btw, can you show any 9-4 shape in NTC?? Who needs it anyway, opps will intervene if you have 2 voids, that's for sure. And they don't come up a lot, so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishovnbg Posted May 9, 2004 Report Share Posted May 9, 2004 what about 55? can distinguish below 3NT? Try MOSCITO, only 500 pages B) .Misho Its only 150 pages Misho :( :D Hi Frederick!With this castrated version of MOSCITO you can't show some important distributions like 9=4=0=0 with opps all time silent :( Misho do YOU really NEED TO??? Common Misho, you know better than this B) The main reason why playing full realy system is nonsense...Misho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bergen Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 I open 1C IF c5d4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishovnbg Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 I open 1C IF c5d4 Hi bergen, welcome to forum!You can add card symbols ♣♦♥♠ by clicking them above the post.In case you open 1♣ with 5♣-4♦ only: 1♦-1♥2♣-2♠3♣-3♦{R}?3♥: 5-4 "No"3♠: 5-4 sing/void ♠ "Hi"3NT: 5-4 sing/void ♥ "Lo"4♣: 6-4 sing/void ♠ "Hi"4♦: 6-4 sing/void ♥ "Lo"4♥: 5-5 sing/void ♠ "Hi"4♠: 5-5 sing/void ♥ "Lo" Misho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 I use to solve the problem with natural methods: Propose what you want and reject when you don´t ahve the lenght, not just ask, also give partner information: 1♦-1♠2♣-2♥2NT-3♣/♦ = an slam try for ♣/♦, after that partner will just reject with 4 cards and cue with 5. Same methods when partner shows 3 in your suit (sadly sometimes you raise the minor at level 4, but still 4NT is a denial: to play) If partner bids its lenght there is no much problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soldatoJ Posted May 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 So1♦-1♠2♣-2♥2N-3♣3N-4♦(3N deny 5-card ♣)4♦ then fit the suit, which will be too high? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trpltrbl Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 In SAYC and 2/1, you can't really find out what 5-4 pd has.That's a little downfall, I have played many 4-3 ♦ partscores instead of 5-3 ♣ fits.Very few were for a bad score, it's live.Minorsuit partscores is something most experts don't really care for, especially in MP's. Mike :angry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted May 12, 2004 Report Share Posted May 12, 2004 I think the level 4 is apropiate for setting a minor fit looking for a slam,when the attemp is serious, when it isn´t you´ve got a problem :-(, again going back to 4NT can show no interest at all in playing in a minor nor any higher. Doesn´t really matter, but I think with 3-3 in the minors you better try ♦ first ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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