kgr Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 [hv=d=n&v=n&s=skjxhqtxxdaqxxxcx]133|100|Scoring: MP[/hv]1♥-4♣!-(DBL)Pass-?? 4♣=4+card ♥, singleton ♣ (no void), 12-14 HCPPass by partner denies 2nd control in ♣ (..Not sure if 2nd control is useful after splinter) Do you bid 4♦ or 4♥ now. Is your 5th ♦ enough extra to bid 4♦? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 If 4♦ would be a cue bid, I don't think you need extras to bid it - you should do it whenever you have diamond control. The right way to differentiate between a minimum and a maximum is:- If opener isn't interested, he signs off over the double of 4♣.- If opener is interested only opposite a maximum, he passes 4♣. If responder now bids 4♦, opener bids 4♥. With a maximum, responder is expected to bid again.- If opener is interested opposite any splinter, he passes 4♣, then bids past 4♥.That allows opener to find out about both responder's strength and his diamond control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 I would bid 4♦. Why not? Maybe partner passed just to see if I had diamond control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Partner's pass should deny first round control. Now I bid 4♦, I don't see why this has to show a maximum, since a maximum will bid past 4♥ anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 In most situations if partner has shown interest (as by passing here leaving me room) I play that cue-bids below game show only the control and no extra values. This makes 4♦ automatic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 If you have shown a range as precise as 12-14 you don't need extras to cue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgr Posted February 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Thanks all for the answers. On this hand it didn't matter much. I did bid ans partner continued with RKC and 2 aces were missing. (one Ace and Heart K).Hoping that I can create some more detailed rules, I opened an other post.- Also because of the support for 4♦ here. I thought it should/was best to show extra's.- There was a remark that partners pass is showing extras because he can bid 4H with a minimum hand. Bidding 4H does probably not say enything about controls in ♣, but simply says that you are minimum. Can it have D-control? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFA Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 - There was a remark that partners pass is showing extras because he can bid 4H with a minimum hand. Bidding 4H does probably not say enything about controls in ♣, but simply says that you are minimum. Can it have D-control? Of course it can. 4♥ is a sign-off that simply just denies slam interest because of lack of power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 I would consider 5431 to be extras when the diamond suit is that good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgr Posted February 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 [hv=d=n&v=n&s=skjxhqtxxdaqxxxcx 1♥-4♣!-(dbl)pass-?? 4♣=4+card ♥, singleton ♣ (no void), 12-14 hcppass by partner denies 2nd control in ♣ (..not sure if 2nd control is useful after splinter) do you bid 4♦ or 4♥ now. is your 5th ♦ enough extra to bid 4♦?fyi: partner had dealer: ????? vul: ???? scoring: unknown]133|100|Scoring: MP ♠ Ax ♥ AJxxx ♦ KJx ♣ xxx [/hv]and bidding was:1♥-4♣-(DBL)P-4♥4NT-5♣5♥ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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